Where Real Estate Gets Its Dirt

Industry Relations: Spiderman, Spending Controversy & the Same Old NAR?

As Peter Parker will tell you, great power comes with great responsibility. And there is little doubt that NAR has a great deal of power. With Bob Goldberg at the helm, many have anticipated a ‘kinder, gentler NAR,’ an organization that rules with a warm embrace rather than an iron fist—serving its membership with open discussion and greater transparency. Does the recent drama over the dues increase demonstrate a more-of-the-same-old approach from NAR leadership? Or is the perceived crisis around the budget an overreaction? Is there evidence that the culture at NAR is really changing for the better?

Rob and Greg are back in the ring on the heels of the REALTORS midyear legislative meeting, going toe to toe over the recent controversy around NAR spending. They start with an overview of what went down, beginning with the Houston Association of REALTORS opposition piece in Inmanand the subsequent op-ed credited to Jim Harrison of MLSListings. Rob and Greg walk us through the retractions, rebuttals and apologies that followed as well as the board of director’s vote in DC.

Rob offers his take on NAR budget priorities, sharing the questions he has around spending on things like zipLogix, RPR and advertising to protect the REALTOR brand. He goes on to discuss the way NAR handled the spending controversy, framing it as a missed opportunity to embrace opposition as a catalyst for discussion rather than ruling with an iron fist—which may discourage membership from speaking up in the future. Greg offers his defense of NAR, pointing out that the SMART Budget Initiativeis clearly outlined NAR’s website and citing member engagement as an incredibly complex issue. Listen in for Rob’s insight around NAR’s responsibility to its members and decide whether NAR is, indeed, using its power for good.

 

What’s Discussed:

The Houston Association of REALTORS’ opposition to the dues increase

How the controversial op-ed credited to Jim Harrison went too far

The questions around NAR’s spending on zipLogix, RPR and advertising

The line items Rob would like to see NAR prioritize in its budget

– Advocacy

– Professionalism

Greg’s perspective that there is no evidence of an NAR crisis

How NAR might have handled the spending controversy differently

– Could have offered ‘warm embrace’

– Opposition as catalyst for discussion

NAR’s postponement of the 2.5% annual dues increase

Rob’s take that NAR’s iron fist will discourage others from speaking up

Rob’s concern about the lack of explanation regarding NAR spending

Greg’s defense of NAR as being more transparent than ever before

SMART Initiative outlines spending objectives

– Elizabeth presented proposed budget at T3

– Communication with membership is difficult

Rob’s belief that NAR’s power gives them a higher level of responsibility

Resources:

 

Houston Association of REALTORS Member Survey

HAR’s Dues Increase Opposition Piece in Inman

Jim Harrison’s Op-Ed in Inman

HAR’s Clarification and Apology

Harrison’s Apology

NAR’s SMART Budget Initiative

Rob’s ‘Crisis and Opportunity’ Blog Post

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

The Red Dot

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Email gregrobertson@gmail.com

 

Industry Relations: Does the NAR Logo Controversy Suggest a Failure to Communicate?

If Rob and Greg are cute when they fight, then our co-hosts are particularly adorable on this edition of Industry Relations as they take on the current controversy over the new NAR logo: Is #Logogate indicative of an alarming disconnect between NAR leadership and its members? Or did NAR leadership take the appropriate steps to engage constituents in the decision-making process—and it simply didn’t work out?

Today, Rob and Greg begin their discussion with a review of the Information Technology & Innovation Foundation forum in DC on using technology to make real estate more competitive, describing the lack of understanding demonstrated by the moderator and the defensiveness of the industry players on the panel. They go on to address #Logogate, and Rob shares his take that the controversy demonstrates a flaw of governance, while Greg argues that a logo is subjective—and leadership may havesolicited member input during the process.

Rob offers insight on the ‘culture of confidentiality’ he has observed among association leaders, while Greg contends that the current leadership is more transparent and proactive than ever. They wrap up with dialogue on how Zillow may be raising the bar in real estate by entering the iBuyer space, choosing the best of its Premier Agents to represent the company in selling its inventory. Fasten your seatbelt and listen in as Rob and Greg clash on ITIF, #Logogate, and the best agents in real estate!


What’s
 Discussed:

The recent ITIF forum on using tech to make real estate more competitive

The defensive posture of real estate representatives on the ITIF panel

David Kelley’s focus on broker reaction to competition as opposed to data

Rob’s call for a more collaborative approach vs. playing ‘hide the ball’

The current controversy over the new NAR logo

The disconnect between NAR leadership and its members

Rob’s take that #Logogate is indicative of a larger communication issue

Greg’s view that member engagement is the bigger problem

NAR’s proposed dues increase and assumption of budget approval

Rob’s view on the culture of confidentiality at NAR

How Zillow may ‘raise the bar’ for real estate agents

Greg’s argument that the best real estate agents aren’t on Zillow

 

Resources:

Information Technology & Innovation Foundation

‘Blocked: Why Some Companies Restrict Data Access to Reduce Competition and How Open APIs Can Help’ by Daniel Castro and Michael Steinberg

Rob’s #Logogate Blog

Rob’s Zillow Blog

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Our Sponsor:

Cloud Agent Suite

Industry Relations: T3, iBuyers and the Zillow Flip

Is Zillow getting into the house flipping business to make a profit buying and selling real estate? Of the users who submit an Instant Offer request, one-third sell their home within 90 days—and 10% of that third take an investor’s offer. Zillow’s main play here may just be seller lead generation.
 

Today, Rob and Greg talk T3, iBuyers and Zillow. Greg shares his takeaways from the T3 conference, including praise for Stefan’s keynote address and an eye-roll over the ‘no corporate sponsors’ sentiment. Our hosts discuss the recent bombshells around Dale’s departure from RPR and Zillow’s expansion of Instant Offers. Rob walks us through the details of Zillow’s announcement, explaining how sellers will now get an offer from Zillow itself when they use the Instant Offers platform. Rob and Greg share surprise at the lack of backlash around the announcement, examining the benefits for an agent representing Zillow as well as the drop in stock price in light of the news.

 

Greg offers insight on potential abuses of the iBuyer model, considering how predatory lenders might target seniors, the uneducated, or the poor, and they cover the impact of Zillow’s shift on other players in the iBuyer space. Listen in as Rob and Greg address the windfall Zillow is likely to earn in the form of seller leads and learn how the company could solve the affordable housing crisis—and gain invaluable PR in the process!

 

What’s Discussed:

 

Greg’s takeaways from T3

The rumors around RPR and Zillow

Zillow’s announcement of the expansion of Instant Offers

The surprising response to Zillow’s plans to flip houses

Greg’s concerns about the iBuyer model

The recent drop in Zillow’s stock price

Why flipping is not a change in Zillow’s business model

The prospect of Zillow making a fortune on seller leads

Greg’s casino analogy for Zillow’s home-flipping venture

Rob’s take on how Zillow could solve affordable housing

Zillow’s impact on other players in the iBuyer space

 

Resources:

 

Rob’s Zillow Blog Post

Ben Thompson’s Zillow Post

‘Opendoor Founders Subtweet Zillow’s New Home Buying Service’ in Inman

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Industry Relations: Solving for Professionalism in Real Estate with the W-2

Would the woes of the real estate industry be resolved if agents were employees rather than independent contractors? At Inman Disconnect, Rob posited that shifting from the 1099 to a W-2 model would give brokers more control and allow them to address several of the fundamental issues in the space, raising the standards of professionalism by eliminating incompetent or toxic agents—without risking their livelihood.

Today, Rob, Greg and Sunny debate Rob’s proposal, discussing the challenges brokers face in mandating trainings and mentoring for new agents who are independent contractors. Greg argues that leadership is at issue rather than employment status, contending that employees and independent contractors alike are only motivated by leaders who inspire buy-in. Rob, Greg and Sunny address the broker’s responsibilities around professionalism in the industry and weigh in on whether or not brokers can afford to fire top producers who are toxic to the business.

Rob breaks down the revenue structure in a brokerage, explaining how the shift to a W-2 model would give brokers more autonomy and abate the head-count-driven model that fuels a lack of professionalism. Listen in as Rob and Greg come to an unprecedented agreement on the role of leadership in raising industry standards and learn how the law firm model—with its division of employee-associates and partners—might be adapted for real estate.

 

What’s Discussed:

 

Rob’s proposal that the 1099 is the cause of many industry woes

The history behind the shift to agents as independent contractors

Sonny’s take on the broker’s challenge in mandating trainings

Greg’s argument that the issue is leadership vs. control

The broker’s responsibility around agent professionalism

How great leaders attract great talent

Why it’s difficult for agents to move brokerages

Why brokers are hesitant to fire toxic agents

The breakdown of revenue in a brokerage

-Don’t make money on top producers

-Earn on 60/40 agents (five deals/year)

How the W-2 structure would give brokers more control

What triggers the head-count-driven model

-Companies compensate for recruiting numbers

-No cost to keep agent who does two deals/year

-Brokers make LESS from superstar top producers

How the law firm model might be adapted for real estate

 

Resources:

 Inman Disconnect

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Our Sponsor:

Cloud Agent Suite

Industry Relations: Inman Disconnect and a New Set of Principles for Real Estate (The Parker Principles)

Observe. Orient. Decide. Act.

 

The OODA loop is a tool for decision-making developed by military strategist John Boyd. At the Inman Disconnect Conference in Palm Springs, organizers focused on the Orient piece of the process, collaborating with attendees to design a set of principles to govern the industry moving forward. The question becomes, how might those principles influence decision-making in real estate? And will such a manifesto inspire industry players to look inward and take the necessary action?

 

Today, Rob and Greg debrief the Inman Disconnect Conference, applauding Brad Inman’s investment in engaging the industry. They discuss the history behind the Ahwahnee Principles, a new approach to urban planning developed by mavericks in the space in the 1970’s, and how Brad is working to emulate the design of a similar manifesto for real estate. Rob offers insight around the impact of developing a set of principles and how that might translate to action and policy change moving forward, and Greg explains how big gains can be made by people in a community changing small habits over time. Rob and Greg touch on some of the principles addressed at the conference, including low-income housing and big data. Listen in as they share their top takeaways from Inman Disconnect and how the principles can serve as a device to communicate about the way we do business.

 

What’s Discussed:

 

The intent behind the Inman Disconnect Conference

Brad Inman’s investment in engaging the industry

The history behind the Ahwahnee Principles

-New approach to urban planning

-Grew into manifesto (1970’s)

Brad’s aim to develop a set of principles for real estate

The real estate establishment vs. industry ‘rebels’

The controversial issues discussed at Inman Disconnect
-Low-income housing

-Free, open data

Rob’s insight around the impact of principles

-Govern actions, have consequences

-Influence policy changes

Greg’s take on the impact of small changes

Greg’s view on big data and privacy

How the principles might translate to action

-‘They’ vs. ‘I’

-Device to start conversation

 

Resources:

Inman Disconnect

The Parker Principles – A Real Estate Manifesto

Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happinessby Richard H. Thaler and Cass R. Sunstein 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Our Sponsor(s):

Cloud Agent Suite

Industry Relations: Gary Keller’s Polarizing ‘KW First’ Vision Speech

Data is the new oil—and the one with the most insight wins.

 

As technology becomes more and more important to the industry, many brokerages are justifiably concerned that real estate will go the way of travel and eCommerce, eventually doing away with the agent altogether. Gary Keller is uneasy about the current shift from tech-enabled agent to agent-enabled technology, and that is where he is drawing a line in the sand. But his controversial ‘KW First’ solution has a lot of us scratching our heads…

 

Rob and Greg are camped out in the lobby of the 2018 MLS Executive Workshop to talk about Gary Keller’s polarizing vision speech at the recent Keller Williams’ Family Reunion. They are joined by Sunny Lake, official wrangler of Rob Hahn and partner in charge of brokerage consulting with 7DS Associates. Tim Dain, President of MARIS, the regional MLS serving Greater St. Louis, wanders into the conversation as well.

 

Rob, Greg and Sunny walk us through the crux of Gary Keller’s speech, explaining his fear of the shift from tech-enabled agent to agent-enabled technology. Rob explains his take that Garry correctly identified the problem but is misguided in his solution to paint real estate vendors and MLSs as ‘unsafe’ and move to control and protect their own data. They discuss the contrasting ‘better together’ approach being taken by Re/Max and Realogy, addressing why KW would be better served to embrace other players in the fight against agent-enable technology, and Tim explains why the MLS cannot legally ‘sell out’ brokerage data to platforms like Zillow without their permission. Listen in for debate around how much of Gary’s speech may have been theatre meant to ‘rally the troops’ and how his message might impact the upcoming DOJ/FTC talks on real estate data.

 

What’s Discussed:

 

Gary Keller’s polarizing vision speech

-Dangerous shift from tech-enabled agent to agent-enabled tech

-Data not safe with vendors, MLS

-KW will collect, protect own data moving forward

The pressure on brokerages as profit margins continue to shrink

Rob’s take that Gary identified the problem but misidentified the cause

How much of Gary’s speech was theatre to ‘rally the troops’

Why KW won’t be able to do predictive analytics

Agent hesitation to share data with the brokerage

-6-8% average agent adoption with Contactually

Why KW’s ‘go it alone’ approach is misguided

Re/Max’s acquisition of booj

Tim’s insight around the legal restrictions on ‘selling out’ data

-Broker decision, not MLS

The ‘open platform’ approach of Realogy, Re/Max

The fantastic culture at Keller Williams

How Gary’s speech might impact the upcoming DOJ/FTC talks

 

Resources:

 

“Did KW Just Say FU to Vendors?” on Vendor Alley

“In Which Keller Williams Completely Confuses Me” on The Notorious ROB

“The Keller Williams Vision Speech: Followup and Further Thoughts” on The Notorious ROB

“Keller Williams Sheds ‘Traditional Broker’ Shell for New Data-Driven Model” in Inman

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Industry Relations: Bold Moves by Bob Goldberg and National Standards in Real Estate Data

After seven months in office as CEO of the National Association of REALTORS, Bob Goldberg has made some bold moves with regard to AMP and RESO-compliance. He’s also scored big on Capitol Hill, lobbying last-minute changes to the tax reform bill. And he’s cut the NAR budget by 20% and made some significant staffing changes. But should we be celebrating Bob as a change agent just yet?

 

Rob and Greg come to you live from the 2018 MLS Executive Workshop in Scottsdale to argue both sides. Yes, Bob has done more in seven months that we have seen from NAR leadership in quite some time, but there is a low bar for change in the association world. The scope of Bob’s success depends on your basis for comparison, and as you may have guessed, our hosts have very different takes on the issue.

 

Rob and Greg take on other hot topics in real estate as well, covering the major challenges in making Upstream work, the upcoming Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission workshops around real estate data, and how a set of national standards would impact vendors. Listen in for Rob’s take on potential government mandates and Greg’s insight on the ‘holy grail’ of real estate tech—marrying data standards with permission to sell.

 

What’s Discussed:

Bob Goldberg’s bold moves as NAR CEO

-Decision to scuttle AMP

-Enforce RESO standards

-Staffing changes

The low bar for change in the association world

How NAR dodged a bullet with Trump’s tax reform

How the governance model affects the pace of change

How cutting the NAR budget by 20% may impact jobs

The standardization required for Upstream to work

The challenges around MLS vendors and unfunded mandates

The upcoming DOJ/FTC workshops re: real estate data

Rob’s take on making RESO standards law

Greg’s insight on how national standards would impact vendors

– Easier for new vendors to enter space

Marrying standards in real estate data with permission to sell

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Our Sponsor:

Cloud Agent Suite

Industry Relations: Rob & Greg’s 2018 Real Estate Industry Forecast

What’s in store for the real estate industry moving forward into 2018?

Some might consider this a supplement to Rob’s article on Inman News, 7 predictions 2018: Disco Fever.  But it was recorded before the article was published.  In this episode Rob and Greg try their hand at anticipating what’s ahead, offering predictions around the outlook for the MLS, Bob Goldberg and the NAR, the housing market, brokerages, technology and the culture of the industry. They begin with the ‘Blame the MLS’ debate caused by Bob’s response to the Inman Upstream article and Greg’s subsequent South Park blog post. Next, they offer an overview of leadership changes among major industry players and work through the big mystery surrounding RE/MAX’s failure to report Q3 earnings.

Rob and Greg speak to Facebook’s entry into real estate, discussing the differences between the social media powerhouse and Zillow as well as the potential for a syndication deal with Facebook in the coming year. They cover how MLS of Choice is likely to affect the industry, the continuing trend toward the tech-enabled brokerage model, and how NAR’s success in making changes to the tax plan might play out in the 2018 campaign season. Listen in for Rob and Greg’s insight on how the cultural phenomenon that is #MeToo might rock real estate and who will make the biggest splash in the technology space this year.


What’s Discussed:

The tendency among industry players to ‘blame the MLS’

The mystery around RE/MAX’s failure to report Q3 earnings

Facebook’s entry into real estate

– Match vs. search

The potential for a direct syndication deal with Facebook in 2018

Real estate as the ‘last frontier of disruption’

Greg’s insight around the rise of virtual MLSs

How MLS of Choice could trigger the first ‘hostile takeover’

The likelihood of non-contiguous consolidation activity among MLSs

Rob’s take on how HAR could leverage MLS of Choice

NAR’s big win on Capitol Hill regarding the tax plan

NAR’s increase in political spending in 2018

The trend of brokerages to adopt a tech-enabled model

–  Keller Williams culture of freedom
–  Agent adoption not a given

Mergers and acquisitions in the vendor space

The probability that #MeToo will rock real estate in 2018

Who is apt to make the biggest splash in real estate tech this year


Resources:

Andrea’s Upstream Article in Inman

Bob’s Email Response

‘Blame the MLS’ on Vendor Alley

Rob’s 7 Predictions for 2018

Everybody Wins: The Story and Lessons Behind RE/MAX by Phil Harkins and Keith Hollihan

Mike’s Breakdown of Facebook vs. Zillow

Inman Article on Using Facebook for Lead Gen

Brad’s NAR Article in Inman


Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Industry Relations: Rob and Greg’s 2017 Year In Review

Take a moment to reflect on the past year in real estate… What were the hot topics of 2017? The appointment of a new NAR CEO is probably on your list, along with Zillow jumping into the iBuyer game and Redfin going public. Maybe the Upstream pivot came to mind, or one of the many stories around venture capital and private equity investing in tech-enabled brokerages.

Rob and Greg are taking the time to look back at 2017 and discuss the top five issues that rocked residential real estate this year. They start with the appointment of Bob Goldberg as the new leader of NAR, evaluating his performance so far and how the proposed tax bill will test him in this role. Rob and Greg go on to cover 2017 as the year of the iBuyer, explaining how the model is yet to be profitable and the circumstances under which platforms like Opendoor and OfferPad might become more mainstream.

Rob offers his take on the dynamics between Redfin and Zillow, discussing why he considers the Redfin IPO to be the biggest thing in real estate this year. Greg raises the issue of SoftBank’s investment in Compass, speaking to the influx of capital pouring into the space and the many examples of consolidation in the industry. They walk through the impact of MLS of Choice and what might change as a result of the new policy as well as the question of what success looks like for RPR as Upstream appears to lose relevance. Listen in for Rob and Greg’s overview of the hottest stories in real estate this past year and their insight on what’s to come in 2018.

What’s Discussed:

The appointment of Bob Goldberg as NAR CEO
How the tax reform bill will serve as a test for Bob
What made 2017 the year of the iBuyer
How market conditions and margins impact the popularity of iBuyers
Why Rob considers Redfin going public the biggest event of 2017
Redfin’s employee-agent model and culture of consumer focus
The influx of capital pouring into residential real estate
– SoftBank’s $450M investment in Compass
– Consolidation and tech-enabled brokerages
The significance of ‘MLS of Choice’
The proposal to shut down RPR
Upstream’s apparent loss of relevance

Resources:

Brian Boero on 1000watt
“Why Does Compass Keep Winning?” in Inman

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website

Industry Relations 14: ‘MLS of Choice,’ Sam DeBord and Jeff Young of RPR

Hang around the hotel bar at CMLS2017 long enough (we’re looking at you, Greg), and you will overhear conspiracy theories about ‘MLS of Choice’ somehow leading to a national MLS. The MLS community has long feared that NAR is looking to get into the MLS business, and the rhetoric ‘of choice’ raises alarm bells in the industry. What is NAR’s intent in changing MLS Policy Statements 7.42 and 7.43? Could RPR eventually evolve into a national MLS?

Today Rob and Greg dig into the ‘MLS of Choice’ debate with Sam DeBord and Jeff Young. Sam is a member of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board that revised 7.42 and 7.43, and he will serve as the Vice-Chairman of MLS Policy for NAR next year. He also serves as the managing broker for Seattle Homes Group and VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth. Sam writes for a number of real estate news outlets, and he was named to SP200’s Top 20 Social Influencers and Inman’s Top 101 in Real Estate.

Jeff Young is the Chief of Operations for Realtors Property Resource (RPR), an NAR resource providing comprehensive data, powerful analytics and client-friendly reports for each of NAR’s constituencies. Jeff has been a REALTOR since 1996, serving in various NAR leadership positions including President of the Michigan Association of Realtors in 2008. (In this live recording Jeff happen to walk by as the podcast was being recorded and coaxed in to participate.)

On this episode of Industry Relations, Greg, Rob, Sam and Jeff walk through the details of ‘MLS of Choice,’ discussing how the policy change will offer greater flexibility for brokers and agents in the MLS marketplace. They explore the MLS community’s skepticism around NAR’s intent, and whether there is any merit to the theory that this new policy might eventually lead to RPR becoming a national MLS. Listen in to understand the arguments for and against ‘MLS of Choice’–tin foil hat optional.

What’s Discussed: 

The broker pain points that led to changes in MLS Policy Statements 7.42 and 7.43
The role of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board
The current jurisdictional rules around MLS dues
How ‘MLS of Choice’ provides greater flexibility for brokers/agents in MLS marketplaces
Why the previous policy was endorsed
The arguments for and against ‘MLS of Choice’
Sam’s response to industry fear of NAR establishing a national MLS
The rumors that RPR could become the national MLS
Jeff’s rebuttal concerning the rumors around RPR
– RPR contracts with MLSs prevent national MLS
– RPR depends on relationships with 661 of 694 current MLSs
The confusion around ‘MLS of Choice’ as a naming convention
The concept of which MLS not if MLS
How the policy change will adversely affect MLSs that don’t provide value
CMLS’s response to the ‘MLS of Choice’ policy change

Resources:

Sam at Coldwell Banker Danforth
Realtors Property Resource
‘MLS of Choice’ Article in Inman News

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website

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