Great interview. I love how expertly Celeste counters Mr. Mulrenin’s narrative, even when he asks the same question over and over again, but in the end, he genuinely seems enlightened.
Listing Bits Episode: Competing in the Showing Solutions Space – with William Schoeffler
When Zillow announced its intention to acquire ShowingTime in February of 2021, a slew of companies jumped into the showing solutions space. But Instashowing had already been in business for two years, and despite the fierce competition, its young founder believes that his startup has an edge.
William Schoeffler is the Founder of Instashowing, a software company out of Bend, Oregon, that offers the premiere showing solution for forward-thinking real estate professionals. On this episode of Listing Bits, William shares the experience with an agent that inspired him to build Instashowing and describes the suite of listing agent tools his team is developing.
William explains how he raised $4M on the heels of Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime, discussing the expectation to grow that comes with that kind of an investment and the advantages Instashowing has over its many competitors. Listen in to understand the challenge of supporting several showing solutions in a single market and learn how William is forming a syndicate to allow MLSs to invest in Instashowing.
What’s Discussed:
The experience with a real estate agent that inspired William to build Instashowing
How William raised $4M from industry giants Pete Flint and Greg Schwartz
The wave of competitors in the showing solutions space after Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime
Why Instashowing started selling to agents and brokers (not MLSs) when it launched in 2019
The advantages Instashowing has over its competitors
How Instashowing’s success in a given market hinges on full integration with its MLS
Why William believes the industry will return to a single showing solution product in each market
The suite of listing agent tools Instashowing is developing
The expanding vision and expectation to grow that comes with a $4M investment
Why William is not planning on adding a call center to the Instashowing offerings
How William is forming a syndicate to allow MLSs to invest in Instashowing
Connect with William:
Resources:
Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime
Our Sponsor:
Industry Relations Episode 65: A Retrospective of the Most Important Events in Real Estate in 2021
What were the most important events in real estate in 2021? And how might those events change the industry moving into 2022?
On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg sit down to reflect on what they see as the most significant headlines of 2021, discussing the real reason behind Zillow’s abrupt exit from the iBuyer market and what Zillow 3.0 might look like.
Rob and Greg explore the significance of NAR’s apology for its racist past and policy changes around hate speech, describing how the ethics complaint against Pastor Brandon Huber reflects a growing division in the industry.
Listen in for insight on the impact of MLSs becoming technology companies and find out why it’s time for you to start learning about the blockchain and what this trend toward decentralization means for the future of real estate.
What‘s Discussed:
Rob & Greg’s take on the most important events in real estate in 2021
The DOJ’s withdrawal from its settlement with NAR and Biden’s subsequent Executive Order on competition
How Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime changed the way vendors, MLSs and associations do business
The real reason behind Zillow’s exit from the iBuyer market and what Zillow 3.0 might look like
Rob’s prediction that Rich Barton will retire again in 2022 and why Greg thinks he’s wrong
The significance of NAR’s policy changes re: the transparency of listing data
Why NAR’s apology for its racist past matters and how it might serve as the first step toward reparations
The ethics complaint against Pastor Brandon Huber and how it reflects the growing division in organized real estate
How Greg thinks about MLSs becoming technology companies and what it means for vendors
Rob’s insight on how blockchain technology might impact real estate
Connect with Rob & Greg:
Resources:
Biden’s Executive Order on Promoting Competition in the American Economy
The DOJ’s Antitrust Case Against NAR
The DOJ’s Withdrawal from Its Settlement with NAR
Business Insider Article on Zillow’s Project Ketchup
Rob’s Post on Zillow’s Project Ketchup
Ben Thompson on Zillow’s Decision to Exit the iBuyer Market
Rich Barton on the Stratechery Podcast
NAR Policy Changes on Transparency of Listing Data
Bloomberg Article on the NAR Formal Apology for Past Racism
Changes to the NAR Speech Code
Pastor Brandon Huber’s Lawsuit Against the Missoula Organization of REALTORS
The Bitcoin Standard: The Decentralized Alternative to Central Banking by Saifedean Ammous
Industry Relations Episode 64: A New Approach to Antitrust Regulations—with Michael Wurzer
The DOJ pulling out of its antitrust settlement with NAR seems like bad news for the industry.
But what if it could be an opportunity?
Michael Wurzer is the CEO of FBS, the leading innovator of MLS technology. Prior to FBS, Michael spent seven years practicing law in California and Minnesota, working in corporate law, litigation, and serving as Assistant General Counsel for Aveda.
On this episode of Industry Relations, Michael shares his unique perspective on the DOJ withdrawal, discussing the Biden administration’s intent to refocus on antitrust principles and the need for smaller, independent businesses to ensure competition in any sector.
Michael explains how organized real estate might engage with regulators, describing how MLSs could serve as labs of experimentation to promote transparency and competition in the industry.
Listen in to understand the challenge of overcoming what Rob calls the regulatory mindset and find out how real estate can take an offensive posture with the FTC, working together to innovate around Brandeis and Patman’s antitrust ideals.
What’s Discussed:
The intent of the Biden administration to refocus on antitrust principles
Why industries need smaller, independent businesses to ensure competition
How the competitive nature of the MLS benefits NAR in negotiating with the DOJ
Why Michael sees an opportunity for the industry to engage with regulators
How MLSs might serve as labs of experimentation to promote transparency and competition
The concerns around Ben Harris’ advocacy for delinking of commissions
How a willingness to experiment would be a good defense for government intervention
Rob’s concern that the regulatory mindset won’t allow for such a nuanced approach
Why Michael doesn’t see NAR or large MLSs as Goliaths to be broken up
Connect with Michael:
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Resources:
Justice Department Withdraws from Settlement with the National Association of Realtors
Goliath: The 100-Year War Between Monopoly Power and Democracy by Matt Stoller
‘Amazon’s Antitrust Paradox’ by Lina M. Khan
Biden’s Executive Order on Promoting Competition in the American Economy
REX on Industry Relations EP055
‘Anticompetition in Buying and Selling Homes’ by Roger P. Alford and Benjamin H. Harris
Michael’s Presentation on the Expanding MLS
British Columbia’s Shadow Flipping Controversy
Our Sponsors:
Listing Bits Episode 69: Educating Consumers on the MLS – with Katie Smithson
Ask the average consumer what they know about the MLS, and you’re likely to hear about their favorite Major League Soccer team. But CMLS wants to change that, and the organization is on a mission to educate the general public around the benefits of working with a real estate professional and listing a home on the MLS.
Katie Smithson is the Director of Enterprise Sales at Lone Wolf Technologies, and she serves on the Board of Directors for both the Council of Multiple Listing Services and Real Estate Standards Organization. On this episode of Listing Bits, Katie shares CMLS’s new In the Know Campaign, describing how the initiative seeks to convey the importance of the MLS to consumers.
Katie explains why CMLS partnered with 1000watt to develop assets for In the Know and how agents and brokers can use the campaign’s digital content to share the CMLS message with consumers. Listen in to understand how Lone Wolf is integrating In the Know content into Cloud CMA and find out how other vendors can get involved in educating consumers on the value of the MLS.
What’s Discussed:
How CMLS’s Making the Market Work Campaign communicated the value of the MLS to its members
CMLS’s partnership with 1000watt to develop assets for the new In the Know Campaign
How the In the Know Campaign conveys the importance of the MLS to consumers
Why In the Know is not specific to a particular MLS system but advocates for the industry as a whole
CMLS’s hope that brokers and agents will share the campaign’s message with consumers
Why exclusive listings are not a good look for organized real estate in light of Fair Housing legislation
How listing on the MLS gives sellers the best exposure in a given market
How In the Know assets are designed for brokers, agents and vendors to put to use
How the Lone Wolf Technologies team is integrating In the Know content into Cloud CMA Live
Katie’s insight around how other vendors might get involved with the In the Know Campaign
Connect with Katie:
Email ksmithson [at] lwolf [dot] com
Resources:
Lone Wolf and CMLS partner to empower real estate agents and brokers
CMLS’s Making the Market Work Campaign
NAR MLS Clear Cooperation Policy
Our Sponsor:
Yours truly on the IRES Matters Podcast
I got a chance to sit down with Annie McLaughlin from IRES, for their IRES Matters Podcast.
You can listen to the podcast on your favorite player or on this site.
Listing Bits Episode 68: A New Player in Showing Services – with Scott Fisher and Devin Beck
Prior to 2003, Supra had a monopoly on the lockbox market. But NAR membership wanted choice, so the trade association invested in its first outside tech company, SentriLock. Today, a similar market dominance exists in showing service solutions, and SentriLock is stepping in once again to compete with the dominant player in the space.
Scott Fisher and Devin Beck are the CEO and Director of Revenue of SentriLock, the first and only combined lockbox, showing service and experience management solution for real estate. On this episode of Listing Bits, Scott and Devin explain why SentriLock is expanding into the showing service space and how proptech consolidation accelerated industry interest their new offering.
Scott and Devin share SentriLock’s approach to entering a new market with a dominant player, describing how their partnership with NAR and commitment to customer service differentiate them from the competition. Listen in for insight around the unique features of the SentriKey Showing Service and learn how you can benefit from their lockbox offering, showing service or combination thereof.
What’s Discussed:
How Scott’s telecom background led him to the lockbox space
Devin’s efforts to diversify SentriLock’s portfolio of offerings
What inspired the partnership between NAR and Scott’s team
Why SentriLock is expanding into the showing service space
SentriLock’s approach to entering a market with a dominant player
How Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime accelerated interest in SentriLock’s new offering
How SentriLock’s lockbox and showing solutions are designed to stand alone yet work together
Why consolidation causes uncertainty in the MLS community
Why NAR is unlikely to sell SentriLock
How Scott sees their commitment to take care of the member first as SentriLock’s secret weapon
The features that differentiate SentriLock’s showing solution
How competition among vendors brings value to the industry
Connect with Scott & Devin:
Resources:
The Story Behind SentriKey Showing Service
CoStar’s Acquisition of Homes.com
REALTORS Political Action Committee
Our Sponsor:
My interview with Jimmy Kelly, CEO of Lone Wolf
The first 4 months at Lone Wolf have been an awesome learning experience for me. Lone Wolf and W+R Studios have always had mutual customers, and I was always aware of the forms and transaction management business but now I’m getting a full immersion course. What I’m learning the most is this, at scale, it’s a tough business. I know that competition is starting to rise in this space, I would only say to them, be careful what you wish for.
With that in mind, I sat down to talk with Lone Wolf’s CEO, Jimmy Kelly. I was surprised but not surprised that he agreed to do this interview with me. I don’t think we made any edits or cut anything out, it’s about 30 mins long and worth the watch. Jimmy answered all my questions, even the tough ones (check out the timeline), and I still have a job!
Hope you enjoy and see how running a form business during the beginning of a worldwide pandemic is a little like Lucy and Ethel working at the chocolate factory.
Timeline:
:40 – Introduction to Jimmy, and history in software industry
4:20 – Greg and Jimmy discuss forms changes and frequency of requests
5:15 – Looking back on pandemic, COVID requests, and response from Lone Wolf
9:30 – Greg asks about product outages, instability. Jimmy discusses what’s going on at Lone Wolf.
12:00 – Greg: What do you say to customers who’ve heard that before?
16:05 – Jimmy discusses future of Back Office.
17:45 – Greg: Are Transactions (zipForm Edition) and Transactions (TransactionDesk Edition) eventually going to merge?
20:00 – Greg: What do you say to customers who want you to focus on current issues rather than innovating/buying companies?
23:45 – Jimmy previews what he’s most excited about coming soon from Lone Wolf
29:00 – Greg: What can you share about Stone Point Capital acquiring CoreLogic?
31:30 – Is Greg a thorn in Jimmy’s side?
Listing Bits Episode 66: How Standards Streamline PropTech – with Sam DeBord of RESO
Policy may not be sexy, but without standards around how we format real estate data and build technology systems, we simply can’t share data or integrate the tools we need to do our jobs well.
Sam DeBord serves as CEO of the Real Estate Standards Organization, the trade group responsible for developing the open standards that drive efficiency and streamline technology for the industry. His resume includes a wide range of leadership positions in the real estate space, including President’s Liaison for MLS and Data Management at NAR and VP of Government Affairs with Washington Realtors. Sam is also the VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth in Seattle and writes for REALTOR Magazine, Inman News and the Swanepoel Trends Report.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Sam describes RESO’s role in the real estate industry, explaining how the standards set by his organization provide certainty for developers and support data shares and tech integrations. He shares the progress RESO has made in the last year, discussing what they have done to streamline compliance certifications and initiate the proposed Listing Exchange Access Policy. Listen in for Sam’s insight on the constraints of the current market (and the new tech that’s emerged as a result) and find out how he thinks about the kerfuffle surrounding the most recent mergers and acquisitions in the real estate space.
What’s Discussed:
What RESO does to create efficiencies and streamline tech for the real estate industry
RESO’s evolution to an independent trade organization and how it relies on thousands of volunteer SMEs to build its Workgroups
RESO’s recent work to streamline its compliance certifications and create a new development guide for vendors
How RESO standards provide certainty for developers and support data shares and integrations
Why Sam is a proponent of creating a single policy for how data is used and displayed (and how that would help brokers)
RESO’s work with the broker community and CMLS to draft the proposed Listing Exchange Access Policy
The progress RESO has made in just the last year to align industry trade organizations, brokers and MLSs around common goals
How RESO standards helped facilitate the NorCal MLS Alliance
Sam’s take on how the artificial constraints of the current market impact agents and the tech facilitating the trend to buy homes sight unseen
How Sam thinks about the most recent mergers and acquisitions in the real estate space
Why proptech companies need to recognize our cultural preference to work with an agent
The potential problems associated with a broker-member of an MLS being paid by that MLS for a technology service
Connect with Sam:
Real Estate Standards Organization
Email sam[at]reso[dot]org
Resources:
RESO’s Broker Advisory Workgroup
2020 RESO Certification Updates
NAR’s MLS Technology & Emerging Issues Advisory Board
Summary of NAR’s 2021 MLS Policy Changes
CMLS’s Participant Data Access Policy
CMLS’s CCP Implementation Guide
Zillow Economist Jeff Tucker on Industry Relations EP059
Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime
RESO’s Unique Organizational Identifier (UOI)
Our Sponsor:
Industry Relations Episode 61: Diagnosing Zillow Angst – with Errol Samuelson, Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow Group
Zillow has been consumer-centric since its inception in 2006. And in the early days, the tech company didn’t pay much attention to agents. Now Zillow realizes that reducing friction for consumers means helping agents respond to online leads and schedule showings, for example. But is it too late to earn the industry’s trust?
Errol Samuelson is the Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow Group. With 25 years of experience in proptech, he served in leadership roles at Realtor.com, Top Producer Systems, and Move, Inc. before joining Zillow in 2014. On this episode of Industry Relations, Errol sits down with Rob and Greg to explain why Zillow is acquiring ShowingTime and explore what’s behind the industry’s volatile reaction to the announcement.
Errol discusses the real estate industry’s distrust of Zillow, acknowledging the frustration the tech company has caused over the years and assuring us that his team will not misuse ShowingTime data. Listen in to understand how Errol thinks about CoStar as a competitor and learn why he believes an industry without cooperation and compensation is not good for agents, brokers or consumers.
What’s Discussed:
Why the real estate industry went apeshit over Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime
Zillow’s assurance that ShowingTime will remain an open platform with a strict privacy policy
What problem Zillow is trying to solve by acquiring ShowingTime
Errol’s insight on the rumor that Zillow bought ShowingTime to keep it out of CoStar’s hands
How Errol thinks about the fact that people assume Zillow is lying
Errol’s acknowledgement of the frustrations Zillow has caused agents over the years and how the company’s behavior may have amplified the industry’s distrust
The possibility that social class and age are a factor in the industry’s mistrust of Zillow
The focus of Zillow’s Q4 earnings call (Zillow Offers vs. streamlining the consumer experience overall)
Why innovation in the lending space is limited by federal regulations
The unique opportunity Zillow has to innovate around ownership models
Errol’s thoughts on CoStar as a competitor and why CoStar’s success hinges on the government putting an end to cooperation and compensation
Connect with Errol:
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Resources:
Rob’s Post on Zillow, ShowingTime & Paranoid Realtors
Zillow’s Press Release on Acquiring ShowingTime
Zillow’s Q4 2020 Earnings Call
Gary Keller’s 2021 Family Reunion Vision Speech Recap
Rob’s 2020 List of the Seven Most Interesting People in Real Estate
Federal Regulations on Mortgage Finance
CoStar’s Q4 2020 Earnings Call
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