Where Real Estate Gets Its Dirt

Industry Relations: Rob and Greg’s 2017 Year In Review

Take a moment to reflect on the past year in real estate… What were the hot topics of 2017? The appointment of a new NAR CEO is probably on your list, along with Zillow jumping into the iBuyer game and Redfin going public. Maybe the Upstream pivot came to mind, or one of the many stories around venture capital and private equity investing in tech-enabled brokerages.

Rob and Greg are taking the time to look back at 2017 and discuss the top five issues that rocked residential real estate this year. They start with the appointment of Bob Goldberg as the new leader of NAR, evaluating his performance so far and how the proposed tax bill will test him in this role. Rob and Greg go on to cover 2017 as the year of the iBuyer, explaining how the model is yet to be profitable and the circumstances under which platforms like Opendoor and OfferPad might become more mainstream.

Rob offers his take on the dynamics between Redfin and Zillow, discussing why he considers the Redfin IPO to be the biggest thing in real estate this year. Greg raises the issue of SoftBank’s investment in Compass, speaking to the influx of capital pouring into the space and the many examples of consolidation in the industry. They walk through the impact of MLS of Choice and what might change as a result of the new policy as well as the question of what success looks like for RPR as Upstream appears to lose relevance. Listen in for Rob and Greg’s overview of the hottest stories in real estate this past year and their insight on what’s to come in 2018.

What’s Discussed:

The appointment of Bob Goldberg as NAR CEO
How the tax reform bill will serve as a test for Bob
What made 2017 the year of the iBuyer
How market conditions and margins impact the popularity of iBuyers
Why Rob considers Redfin going public the biggest event of 2017
Redfin’s employee-agent model and culture of consumer focus
The influx of capital pouring into residential real estate
– SoftBank’s $450M investment in Compass
– Consolidation and tech-enabled brokerages
The significance of ‘MLS of Choice’
The proposal to shut down RPR
Upstream’s apparent loss of relevance

Resources:

Brian Boero on 1000watt
“Why Does Compass Keep Winning?” in Inman

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website

Listing Bits: Denee Evans, CEO of CMLS, talks best practices, compliances and member advocacy

The concept of the MLS creates a strange contradiction for brokers who are both competing with one another, yet sharing inventory by way of compensation and cooperation. In the middle of it all is CMLS, challenged with refereeing any acrimony between brokers and MLSs, promoting best practices, and supporting its membership of 203 MLS providers representing 1.2 million subscribers. At the helm is Denee Evans, the CEO of this premiere organization dedicated to leading the MLS industry in North America.

Denee is a self-proclaimed small-town girl who grew up in Nevada, earning a degree in finance with a specialization in real estate from UNLV. She has always been involved in the industry in some form, doing flips, additions, as well as scrape and builds. Denee spent more than a decade in retail banking, where she dealt with home equity and mortgage loans. Prior to her role with CMLS, Denee was the Executive Director for EnergyFit Nevada, a nonprofit working to make homes more energy efficient.
Through EnergyFit’s efforts to add sustainability information to the MLS, she learned about the opening for CMLS CEO and threw her hat into the ring. Today, Greg asks Denee the tough questions around how to address MLS’s that don’t comply with best practices, the best way for CMLS to support its members, and the organization’s partnership with NAR. Denee explains the ‘blessing and the curse’ of taking on the role of CEO as an outsider in the MLS industry and the benefit for consumers when organized real estate’s stakeholders collaborate. Listen in and learn about the CMLS initiative to create an interactive tool that would assist MLSs in developing a plan to implement best practices.

What’s Discussed:

How Denee’s background in banking informs her understanding of real estate
The intense interview process she experienced to become CEO of CMLS
The blessing and the curse of being an MLS outsider
Denee’s take on the ‘us v. them’ mentality of industry stakeholders
The dichotomy around brokers competing, yet sharing inventory
The challenge for MLS execs to make diverse stakeholders happy
The benefit for consumers when stakeholders cooperate
Denee’s role as an advocate for MLS execs
Denee’s contention that pain points exist in MLS’s of all sizes
The ‘wall of shame’ identifying who hasn’t complied with CMLS best practices
Greg’s proposal to offer free CMLS memberships to non-compliant MLSs

CMLS’s plans to create a best practices interactive tool
– Developed at last CMLS strategic planning session
– Could grow into certification necessary for membership

How CMLS should provide support to its members
– Education v. leadership/advocacy
– Study of industry initiatives to identify needs (e.g.: Upstream)
The controversy around CMLS’s partnership with NAR
– CMLS members assigned seats on NAR committees
– Speak as national voice for CMLS

Resources:

White Paper 7.42
2017 CMLS Best Practices Survey Brief

Connect with Denee Evans:

The Council of Multiple Listing Services
Denee on LinkedIn
Denee on Twitter (Nice hair)

Listing Bits: Katie Smithson, W+R Studios’ Director of MLS Services, talks about being a professional woman in real estate tech

Katie Smithson picks her battles. Even well-meaning colleagues occasionally make insulting or offensive comments, and a professional woman has to decide what she can brush off and what she simply cannot accept. Though the lines can be blurry, nine years in the industry have taught Katie how to establish boundaries and present herself as a professional.

Katie grew up in Franklin, Tennessee, and went to school at Tennessee Technological University. Discouraged by the boys’ club that was electrical engineering, she changed her plans and pursued a degree in marketing. Her first foray into sales and customer service was at a Sprint/Nextel store back in Franklin, where she saw the first MLS searches on a Blackberry. After a move to Knoxville, Katie worked in marketing for a local mortgage company that happened to use CRS Data for tax purposes. Tired of spending her days in a cubicle, she noticed an opening for a trainer at CRS. Katie won them over and secured her first job in real estate. After four years working with agents, realtors and MLS execs to implement the use of CRS products, Katie had a conversation with Greg in a lobby bar at CMLS Boston, and the rest is history.

She has worked at W+R Studios for five years, serving as Director of MLS Services since 2016. Today she shares the details of her activism through the Georgia Women’s Policy Institute, the challenges for women in the real estate industry, and her advice around establishing professional boundaries.

What’s Discussed:

Why Katie gave up on electrical engineering to pursue a marketing degree
Katie’s early sales and customer service experience at Sprint/Nextel
How Katie got involved with the real estate industry
Katie’s role as Director of MLS Services at W+R Studios
The shift from training to sales
Katie’s work with the Georgia Women’s Policy Institute
– Issues affecting women, children
– Get in front of legislators
The challenges for women in the real estate industry
How Katie establishes boundaries as a professional woman
The complications of alcohol as part of industry culture
How Katie’s reputation in the industry has improved her experience with sexism

Katie’s advice for women coming up in the industry
– Keep your head on straight
– Maintain professionalism
– Have a buddy

The challenge of dressing appropriately for women in a business environment
Katie’s recommendations around resources for sales executives

Resources:

CRS Data

Arianna Huffington on Repeating Outfits

‘The Rock’ Test for Sexual Harassment

Inc. Magazine

Connect with Katie Smithson:

W+R Studios

Georgia Women’s Policy Institute

Katie on LinkedIn

Point Counterpoint on “MLS of Choice”

“MLS of Choice” is really a poor choice of wording. I think someone at Inman News coined the phrase. It gives the wrong impression of what 7.42 and 7.43 are really all about. But lucky for us we have Tom and Stan! Tom Berge Jr., NAR’s current chairman of the Multiple Listing Issues and Polices Committee, did a great job outlining their recommendations in a video which served as a supplement to an F.A.Q. page.

As a counterpoint Stan Harke, CEO of Western Regional Information Systems & Technology, Inc., also created a video outlining their concerns over “unintended consequences” of the policy change. He makes a few good points (His “pocket listing” scenario is quite clever) if you can make it through the cheesy music.

Then there are some who believe this might be a giant conspiracy! Just don’t shoot the messenger.

Listing Bits: Making Real Estate Mobile with HomeSpotter CEO Aaron Kardell

By 2009, mobile users could do a lot with smartphone apps—get directions, listen to music, take pictures, play games, even film a video. Aaron Kardell thought that you ought to be able to add ‘look for a house’ to the growing list of applications, and he founded HomeSpotter with the intention of doing just that.

Aaron grew up in rural Nebraska in a family of entrepreneurs. He started writing software programs in high school, and went on to earn a BS in computer science at Bethel University in St. Paul, Minnesota. He originated several businesses, including Altona Ed, an ed tech student information system that was acquired by Pearson School Systems in 2004.
Aaron’s first experience with location-based iPhone applications came along in 2009 when he created iGarageSale. Very shortly thereafter, a broker contacted Aaron about building an app to complement the firm’s successful lead generating website. Aaron retained intellectual property rights, and Mobile Realty Apps was born. The company rebranded as HomeSpotter in 2015, and today they have offerings for MLSs, brokers and agents. On this episode, Aaron joins Greg live from CMLS in Austin to discuss HomeSpotter’s business model, the latest capabilities around mobile listing input, and HomeSpotter’s recent launch of Boost, an automated digital marketing system with trackable ROI.

What’s Discussed: 

Aaron’s entrepreneurial family
How Aaron developed an interest in writing software programs

The genesis of HomeSpotter
– Created iGarageSale app
– Realtor asked to build app as consultant
– Retained intellectual property rights

The tactical mistakes HomeSpotter made early on
Why Aaron chose to take the native mobile route

How Aaron built a business in the 99¢ app store world
– Relied on SaaS model
– White label broker offering

HomeSpotter’s service offerings
– White label platform for brokers
– MLS member access on-the-go
– Boost (automated digital marketing with trackable ROI)

How high agent adoption in MLS markets led to the introduction of additional products
The new capabilities around mobile listing input

– Ability to edit listings (corrections, status changes)
– Update photo support capabilities

How Aaron funded HomeSpotter
– Personal capital sustained first three years
– Angel investors in Minneapolis/St. Paul

The particulars of HomeSpotter’s newest offering, Boost
– Automated system
– For agents, teams, brokers
– Creates Facebook/Instagram ads for each new listing
– Targets prospective buyers and seller
– Helps average agent be more effective with marketing

Greg’s hesitance to get into the ‘advertising business’
Why agents are willing to spend more for advertising than tools
The scalability of an app like Boost

How HomeSpotter is upselling current subscribers to try Boost

– Partnering with brokers, franchises, MLSs
– Email agent when listing added
– Brokers pay for initial week in some cases

How Aaron’s team generates ideas for new products

Cloud CMA’s deal with Tom Ferry
The pros and cons of a pay-per-listing pricing model
The difference between HomeSpotter’s free and premium versions for MLS

Resources:

Cloud CMA’s Listing Presentation Kit by Tom Ferry
Zillow’s Report on Trends in Residential Relocation

Connect with Aaron Kardell:

HomeSpotter
Aaron on LinkedIn

Industry Relations 14: ‘MLS of Choice,’ Sam DeBord and Jeff Young of RPR

Hang around the hotel bar at CMLS2017 long enough (we’re looking at you, Greg), and you will overhear conspiracy theories about ‘MLS of Choice’ somehow leading to a national MLS. The MLS community has long feared that NAR is looking to get into the MLS business, and the rhetoric ‘of choice’ raises alarm bells in the industry. What is NAR’s intent in changing MLS Policy Statements 7.42 and 7.43? Could RPR eventually evolve into a national MLS?

Today Rob and Greg dig into the ‘MLS of Choice’ debate with Sam DeBord and Jeff Young. Sam is a member of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board that revised 7.42 and 7.43, and he will serve as the Vice-Chairman of MLS Policy for NAR next year. He also serves as the managing broker for Seattle Homes Group and VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth. Sam writes for a number of real estate news outlets, and he was named to SP200’s Top 20 Social Influencers and Inman’s Top 101 in Real Estate.

Jeff Young is the Chief of Operations for Realtors Property Resource (RPR), an NAR resource providing comprehensive data, powerful analytics and client-friendly reports for each of NAR’s constituencies. Jeff has been a REALTOR since 1996, serving in various NAR leadership positions including President of the Michigan Association of Realtors in 2008. (In this live recording Jeff happen to walk by as the podcast was being recorded and coaxed in to participate.)

On this episode of Industry Relations, Greg, Rob, Sam and Jeff walk through the details of ‘MLS of Choice,’ discussing how the policy change will offer greater flexibility for brokers and agents in the MLS marketplace. They explore the MLS community’s skepticism around NAR’s intent, and whether there is any merit to the theory that this new policy might eventually lead to RPR becoming a national MLS. Listen in to understand the arguments for and against ‘MLS of Choice’–tin foil hat optional.

What’s Discussed: 

The broker pain points that led to changes in MLS Policy Statements 7.42 and 7.43
The role of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board
The current jurisdictional rules around MLS dues
How ‘MLS of Choice’ provides greater flexibility for brokers/agents in MLS marketplaces
Why the previous policy was endorsed
The arguments for and against ‘MLS of Choice’
Sam’s response to industry fear of NAR establishing a national MLS
The rumors that RPR could become the national MLS
Jeff’s rebuttal concerning the rumors around RPR
– RPR contracts with MLSs prevent national MLS
– RPR depends on relationships with 661 of 694 current MLSs
The confusion around ‘MLS of Choice’ as a naming convention
The concept of which MLS not if MLS
How the policy change will adversely affect MLSs that don’t provide value
CMLS’s response to the ‘MLS of Choice’ policy change

Resources:

Sam at Coldwell Banker Danforth
Realtors Property Resource
‘MLS of Choice’ Article in Inman News

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website

Industry Relations EP013: Barriers to Change in the MLS with James Dwiggins and Sam DeBord

Stakeholders from every facet of the real estate industry are calling for change. Problem is, that’s about the only thing they can agree on. So what happens when you put a broker, a vendor, a consultant, and NAR leadership in the same room to talk about all things MLS? A sometimes uncomfortable, yet revealing discussion around consolidation, data standardization, MLS fees, and the policymaking process.

Stakeholders from every facet of the real estate industry are calling for change. Problem is, that’s about the only thing they can agree on. So what happens when you put a broker, a vendor, a consultant, and NAR leadership in the same room to talk about all things MLS? A sometimes uncomfortable, yet revealing discussion around consolidation, data standardization, MLS fees, and the policymaking process.

Live from CMLS2017 in Austin, Rob and Greg are joined by James Dwiggins and Sam DeBord. James is the CEO of NextHome, a progressive real estate franchise with consumer-focused branding, technology and marketing. Prior to founding NextHome, James served as Chief Strategy Officer and VP of Realty World Northern California & Nevada. Based in the San Francisco Bay Area, James’ impressive resume also includes VREO, a groundbreaking company he co-founded in 2000 to develop web applications for agents and brokers.
Sam is both the managing broker for Seattle Homes Group and VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth. In addition, he is a member of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board, and he will serve as the Vice-Chairman of MLS Policy for NAR next year. Sam writes for a number of real estate news outlets, and he was named to SP200’s Top 20 Social Influencers and Inman’s Top 101 in Real Estate.

Listen in as Greg, Rob, James and Sam search for a little common ground when it comes to the future of the MLS. James shares his concern regarding a lack of non-REALTOR members in NAR decision-making bodies, and Sam offers his take on the future of the industry. They cover the political barriers that prevent true collaboration in the industry, how the not-for-profit mandate hinders MLS progress, and the value of vendor-inclusiveness. 

 

What’s Discussed: 

James’ message at the CMLS event in Austin
The ongoing conversation among NAR, brokers and MLSs
The continued consolidation of MLSs
NAR’s focus on broker co-op
The vast differences in how MLSs are run
The challenges around a lack of data standardizationFactors that prevent a common data share
The brokers’ contribution to the technical barriers 
How a common MLS feed might affect membership
How members of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board are selected

-Vetted by leadership
-‘Standard of experience’James’ concern regarding a lack of non-

REALTOR members NAR’s effort to bring in advisors/speakers from other industries to inform the advisory board

Why having your heart in the right place doesn’t mean you are a qualified decision-maker
The challenge of overcoming politics to engage in true industry collaborationNAR’s role in fostering cooperation
How CMLS is setting the standard of vendor-inclusiveness
Rob’s argument that the nonprofit mandate is the biggest issue hindering MLS progress
The pros and cons of raising MLS fees
The excessive fees vendors pay for access to IDX feeds
The benefits of MLS consolidation:

-Less overhead, more profitable for MLS
-Broker costs decrease
-Vendors can reinvest money saved

The painful loss of jobs that would result from MLS efficiency
James’ prediction that it will take outside forces to facilitate change
The value generated by a very small number of agents -Zillow market cap at 7.6B -80,000 agents

Sam’s take on the future of the real estate industry

-MLS will be part of equation (dependent on data)
-Fewer MLSs
-Realtor will remain at center of transaction

Greg’s A Few Good Men analogy
Rob’s theory about the future MLS breakdown
The top barriers to change: 

-Politics
-Lack of data standards

Sam and James’ advice to MLS execs moving forward

-Focus on broker priorities
-Be flexible, innovative in delivering
-Discuss pain points with vendors
-Work with other MLSs on same process

Resources:

Seattle Homes Group

NextHome

MLS 2020 Agenda

CMLS 2017

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 
Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

Inman says “Blow Up Upstream”

The Inman Files: Blow up Upstream – Why we should pull the plug on this expensive and risky effort

“But I still think it’s time to pull the plug on this project. I do not want to trivialize the well-intended efforts and opinions of so many hard-working people, but it reminds me of Trump’s Wall — grandiose, impractical and inspired by fear. Yes, there is a problem, but Upstream is a wrong-headed solution and a political hairball to build and gain adoption.”

Tell us what you really think Brad!

Plus some advice for new NAR CEO Bob Goldberg…

“This is new NAR CEO Bob Goldberg’s opportunity to walk the talk and end a glaring example of old top-down pyramid thinking. Upstream is a classic NAR inside job, intended to benefit a small group of its overall membership.

As in most succession plans, Goldberg has about six months to blame it on the “dead pilot” (former NAR CEO Dale Stinton). Then he must “OWN IT” — good or bad. RPR is Stinton’s love child, not yours, Bob.”

In my interview with Bob Goldberg he told me that all of NAR programs were on the table for review.

Listing Bits: Flipping the Pyramid with NAR’s New CEO Bob Goldberg

If you feared more of the same when Bob Goldberg was named CEO of NAR, take heart. The rhetoric of our new leadership is focused on engagement, openness and transparency—knocking down the façade of the ‘Ivory Tower’ and facilitating dialogue with members, even those who disagree.

Bob Goldberg has been a senior executive with NAR since 1995, and his accomplishments include the launch of the REALTOR Benefits Program, the introduction of the top-level domain initiative, and the expansion of NAR’s technology partnerships via Second City Ventures and its REach Technology Accelerator. Prior to NAR, Goldberg served as senior vice president with PRC Realty Systems, the national’s leading provider of online multiple listing systems.

Bob is lauded for his leadership, recently named one of the 2017 Swanepoel Power 200 and Inman News Real Estate Influencers of 2017. Bob has forged his career on designing programs and partnerships to strengthen the REALTOR organization and drive success for its 1.2 million members. Today, he explains his approach to ushering in a new era at NAR, discussing his pursuit of transparency through social media, interviews and opportunities for Q&A. He also addresses his intention to serve members via a ‘flipping the pyramid’ model of leadership, and how he plans to empower his team with the authority to drive change. Listen to understand why Bob is an advocate of tech initiative partnerships, and how NAR can tackle the issue of professionalism among its members—with both consumers and fellow agents.

What’s Discussed: 

Bob’s pursuit of openness and transparency
How Bob plans to connect directly with NAR members
Bob’s interview with Andrew Flachner of RealScout
How Bob and the panel approached Q&A at the NAR Leadership Summit
Bob’s intention to facilitate honest discussion about industry issues
Bob’s mission to break down the façade of the ‘Ivory Tower’
– Message was controlled in past
– Initiate dialogue with dissenting voices

Bob’s ‘flipping the pyramid’ concept
– Think from member perspective first
– Encourage member engagement

The upcoming NAR organizational design study
Greg’s characterization of Bob as having a ‘vibe of inclusiveness’
Bob’s aim to be a different kind of leader
– Visionary
– Empower team with authority to drive change

Bob’s background in MLS technology with PRC
How Bob plans to assess the value prop of tech initiatives
– Cost of product
– Member use

The NAR budget process
How NAR decides to sunset a program that’s run its course
Why Bob does not advocate for a national MLS

– Not NAR’s core competency
– NAR doesn’t have funding to compete
– Better to seek partnerships with experts

Bob’s take on NAR’s role in raising the bar for agents
Professionalism with consumers and fellow members
The complexity of addressing professionalism in the industry
Bob’s willingness to be embrace social media
The world-class talent at NAR
The network effect of engagement

Resources:

NAR Leadership Summit on Facebook Live
RealScout Interview with Bob Goldberg
RealScout on Facebook

Connect with Bob Goldberg:

Bob on Facebook
Bob on LinkedIn
NAR Leadership Team on Facebook
NAR Leadership on Twitter

Industry Relations Episode 12: Can NAR’s New CEO Bob Goldberg Elevate the REALTOR Brand?

We can all agree that raising the level of professionalism in the real estate industry is a good thing – absolutely necessary, even. But how do we get there? And who’s responsible for elevating the REALTOR brand? With Bob Goldberg assuming leadership of NAR on August 1, there is much discussion around what he can do to be an agent of change in the industry.

The gloves come off today as Rob and Greg debate the validity of the NAR CEO selection process and the best way to go about ridding the industry of incompetent, unethical agents. They discuss the strengths Bob brings to the table, how his leadership may facilitate cooperation among key players, and the likelihood of substantial policy change with Bob at the helm.

Listen in as Greg and Rob get fired up arguing who’s responsible for making the REALTOR brand meaningful. It is up to NAR to raise standards and differentiate between REALTORS and licensees? Or do brokers need to be held to a higher ideal when it comes to recruiting, hiring and training agents? Whether you’re Team Rob or Team Greg on this one, Bob has his work cut out for him as he takes over NAR this month.

What’s Discussed: 

Greg’s experience working with Bob through eNeighborhoods
NAR’s decision to choose someone from inside the organization
Greg’s sense of Bob as a leader
Rob’s take that hiring Bob may have been a ‘done deal’
Greg’s argument that employing a world-renowned recruiting company is ‘thorough’ as opposed to ‘clueless’
Why Rob contends that NAR should have named Bob as successor two years ago
How the NAR membership might have reacted to naming Bob as successor without selection process
How the interview process affords the opportunity for upfront conversation
Greg’s belief in the validity of the selection process
Why a succession plan is more feasible in the corporate world vs. a member-driven organization
Rob’s frustration with the lack of transparency demonstrated by NAR leadership
Greg’s assessment of how things will change with Bob at the helm of NAR
– Shift in tone
– Capacity to facilitate cooperation
Rob’s assertion that conflict in the industry is about policy rather than tone
Rob’s skepticism re: the probability of change in NAR policy
The relationship between personnel and policy
Greg’s assertion that bureaucracy comes from the association side rather than staff
The challenges Bob faces moving forward
– Elevating REALTOR brand
– Incompetent, unethical agents
Greg’s position that brokers are complicit in hiring unqualified agents
Rob’s counter that agents are not employees
– Only Redfin hires employee agents
– Agent pays broker, not vice versa
– Recruiting agents = sales (not hiring)
Why Rob finds it remarkable that any brokers institute standards
How NAR’s code of ethics runs counter to their acceptance of anyone with a license
Rob’s proposal regarding policy changes that would make the REALTOR brand meaningful
– MLS access no longer tied to membership
– Association staff allowed to take part in ethics hearings
– Remove 1099 exemption for real estate agents

Our Sponsors:
CSS
Corelogic

Resources:
Rob’s ‘Bob Goldberg Era’ Blog
Rob’s Response to Bill Brown’s Comment
NAR DANGER Report

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website

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