Where Real Estate Gets Its Dirt

Industry Relations 14: ‘MLS of Choice,’ Sam DeBord and Jeff Young of RPR

Hang around the hotel bar at CMLS2017 long enough (we’re looking at you, Greg), and you will overhear conspiracy theories about ‘MLS of Choice’ somehow leading to a national MLS. The MLS community has long feared that NAR is looking to get into the MLS business, and the rhetoric ‘of choice’ raises alarm bells in the industry. What is NAR’s intent in changing MLS Policy Statements 7.42 and 7.43? Could RPR eventually evolve into a national MLS?

Today Rob and Greg dig into the ‘MLS of Choice’ debate with Sam DeBord and Jeff Young. Sam is a member of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board that revised 7.42 and 7.43, and he will serve as the Vice-Chairman of MLS Policy for NAR next year. He also serves as the managing broker for Seattle Homes Group and VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth. Sam writes for a number of real estate news outlets, and he was named to SP200’s Top 20 Social Influencers and Inman’s Top 101 in Real Estate.

Jeff Young is the Chief of Operations for Realtors Property Resource (RPR), an NAR resource providing comprehensive data, powerful analytics and client-friendly reports for each of NAR’s constituencies. Jeff has been a REALTOR since 1996, serving in various NAR leadership positions including President of the Michigan Association of Realtors in 2008. (In this live recording Jeff happen to walk by as the podcast was being recorded and coaxed in to participate.)

On this episode of Industry Relations, Greg, Rob, Sam and Jeff walk through the details of ‘MLS of Choice,’ discussing how the policy change will offer greater flexibility for brokers and agents in the MLS marketplace. They explore the MLS community’s skepticism around NAR’s intent, and whether there is any merit to the theory that this new policy might eventually lead to RPR becoming a national MLS. Listen in to understand the arguments for and against ‘MLS of Choice’–tin foil hat optional.

What’s Discussed: 

The broker pain points that led to changes in MLS Policy Statements 7.42 and 7.43
The role of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board
The current jurisdictional rules around MLS dues
How ‘MLS of Choice’ provides greater flexibility for brokers/agents in MLS marketplaces
Why the previous policy was endorsed
The arguments for and against ‘MLS of Choice’
Sam’s response to industry fear of NAR establishing a national MLS
The rumors that RPR could become the national MLS
Jeff’s rebuttal concerning the rumors around RPR
– RPR contracts with MLSs prevent national MLS
– RPR depends on relationships with 661 of 694 current MLSs
The confusion around ‘MLS of Choice’ as a naming convention
The concept of which MLS not if MLS
How the policy change will adversely affect MLSs that don’t provide value
CMLS’s response to the ‘MLS of Choice’ policy change

Resources:

Sam at Coldwell Banker Danforth
Realtors Property Resource
‘MLS of Choice’ Article in Inman News

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website

Inman says “Blow Up Upstream”

The Inman Files: Blow up Upstream – Why we should pull the plug on this expensive and risky effort

“But I still think it’s time to pull the plug on this project. I do not want to trivialize the well-intended efforts and opinions of so many hard-working people, but it reminds me of Trump’s Wall — grandiose, impractical and inspired by fear. Yes, there is a problem, but Upstream is a wrong-headed solution and a political hairball to build and gain adoption.”

Tell us what you really think Brad!

Plus some advice for new NAR CEO Bob Goldberg…

“This is new NAR CEO Bob Goldberg’s opportunity to walk the talk and end a glaring example of old top-down pyramid thinking. Upstream is a classic NAR inside job, intended to benefit a small group of its overall membership.

As in most succession plans, Goldberg has about six months to blame it on the “dead pilot” (former NAR CEO Dale Stinton). Then he must “OWN IT” — good or bad. RPR is Stinton’s love child, not yours, Bob.”

In my interview with Bob Goldberg he told me that all of NAR programs were on the table for review.

Is Upstream dead?

I heard the news in the air, while flying in to DCA. UpstreamRE had “pivoted”. Instead of brokers entering listings in what UpstreamRE CEO, Alex Lange described as a “Google Drive” in the cloud they could now enter their listing data through their MLS.

I sent out a quick tweet.

2 years and 12 6 million dollars later, the brokers had finally listened to what MLS executives have been saying all along. Use the MLS stupid!

When I landed the texts and calls came in about how Alex Lange presented the news at CMLS’ “Brings it to the Table” event.

Alex was there, along with Dan Elsea. Alex announced they had pivoted. He described that brokers could enter data via the MLS first, and allow UpstreamRE to receive those listings from the MLS.

After all the hubris from UpstreamRE, I can only imagine the mental energy it took to stop the collective eye roll of every attendee in the room. But this party was just getting started.

When Alex was pressed on why the “pivot” he made a statement that a big reason was MLS vendors had been uncooperative. At this point Michael Wurzer, CEO of FBS and a CMLS board member called bullshit. He described FBS’s interaction with the project, which contradicted Alex’s previous statement. To which Alex said it wasn’t really FBS and then proceeded to throw CoreLogic under the bus. Stay classy Alex, stay classy.

And then the shit show continued. Tim Dain stood up and asked Alex if the rumors were true that RPR had sent a team of developers to Portland to get a working demo of the system, and that the demos they were touting at the Midyear meetings were not a “beta” or “up and running” or really even “live” as they were being promoted thus far, but more of a “proof of concept”. To which Alex, handed the microphone to Portland RMLS CEO, Kurt von Wasmuth. To which Kurt confirmed everything Tim suggested. Oy Vey!

Also, is “pivot” even the right word?

I was chatting with Matt Cohen a bit and he thought that their use of the word “pivot” was really a poor choice. Here’s Matt…

Upstream has FINALLY realized that being “Upstream” – creating and implementing the technology / integrations – will take quite a long time. It’s still their goal to be upstream but they need to start getting users and generating revenue. That means, providing the “control” value of syndication next year, which requires MLS data – so, in the short/medium/medium-long term, they will need to accept listing data from MLSs. I don’t see that the long term goal has changed or their long term high-level strategy (no pivot) but in the short term there’s just an intermediate step on the way to their goal. To use examples of real pivots: Odeo was about finding and subscribing podcasts before pivoting into micro-blogging as Twitter. That’s a pivot to an entirely different end-product with no plan to ever return to a podcast business. Confinity was about beaming payments from a PDA before it pivoted into online payments as Paypal. That’s another pivot into an entirely different space. Again, I see Upstream not yet changing their end goal – just adding a step in how to get there

Yup.

Then Saturday happen. The N.A.R. approved an additional $9 million to project Upstream and Dale Stinton, the current CEO of the N.A.R. started pointing fingers and made some inflammatory statements toward MLSs and MLS Vendors. Don’t they realize that if they ever want to accomplish this project they are going to need the cooperation from the the same guys they are throwing under the bus? Good luck with that!

Can’t we all just get along?

I get it. Everything can get heated. Hell, the original title to this blog post was “SHITSTREAM”. So beyond my snarkiness I really do think there might be a positive side to this whole fiasco. When Craig Cheatham announced at the CMLS Conference in Boise that the MLS industry had “10 days” before they would feel the wrath of their brokers it really did wake up the industry.

Since then things have changed a lot. NAR core standards initiatives have contributed to less associations, Bright MLS kicked off a wave of consolidation the industry has never seen before. And data standards are gaining more momentum.

In a sense the brokers are getting what they wanted. They won.

But I think this progress has been stifled by hubris of Upstream, and now the N.A.R.’s stance that the MLS industry is a “cartel” and must be stopped.

We all need to press the reset button, and move forward.

Powered by RPR?

Something struck me as not quite right about this recent video from Upstream (at least I think Upstream made it). I think the video is well produced (the worse parts are anytime the Upstream logo makes an appearance). The video is kind of like one of the “Prop XX” videos you see during election times, you can’t really tell who is benefiting if it passes, “Consumers” or “Big Tobacco”!

First I find it super interesting that they are hitting on the “re-keying of data”, as Upstream’s main value proposition. The real reason (as I see it), brokers wanting things to go back to how they were in 1995, is nowhere in the messaging. It’s all about saving “significant costs” and “risk of data being entered incorrectly” now. Which I think is smart on their part.

What I don’t get is the “powered by RPR” moniker. To me RPR is just the vendor on this project. I just can’t figure out who wanted this, RPR or the peeps at Upstream?

Cui bono?

RPR vs. Zillow -Tale of the tape

Lots of interesting tidbits from this article by Andrea Brambila at Inman News.

Zillow vs RPR: Which got more initial funding?

“Turns out Zillow got a lot more funding in its first years: $87 million in 2005-2007, but no additional funding before its initial public offering (IPO), according to CrunchBase.

Zillow went public July 20, 2011, raising $75.7 million. Its market cap was $962 million that day. Zillow had 10,710 Premier Agent subscribers then.

By contrast, RPR got $39.2 million in its first three years. The amount spent annually on the company has been rising nearly every year and is projected to keep doing so at least through 2019.”

Very interesting perspective. The total amount of funding RPR has received between 2009 and 2016 is over $144M.

I’d like to see a comparison of adoption. Meaning total number of active “Premier Agents” vs total number of “RPR Agents”. After a quick look online I didn’t find the actual number of Premier agents but, they have publicly stated that they are focusing on “super agents”. So Zillow cares less about total number of agents on their platform, only if they are buying a lot. RPR has stated previously that “there is a base of over 100,000 power users who use it frequently”, but everyone pays.

Of course N.A.R.’s mission is very different to Zillows. It will also be interesting to see how RPR’s pivot to AMP and Upstream vendor plays in to these revenue numbers going forward.

and there’s this…

“Of note: In June, Zillow agreed to pay its main competitor, realtor.com operator Move Inc., $130 million in a settlement to resolve all legal claims between them — an amount bigger than all of Zillow’s pre-IPO funding.”

Think about that awhile. Zillow settled a lawsuit for more money that they raised to get started. That’s pretty remarkable.

And finally,

“Zillow was to pay all the funds in full just two weeks after the settlement, on June 20. Neither Zillow nor Move would tell Inman whether the funds had been paid, saying the information would be disclosed in future earnings reports from their parent companies, Zillow Group and News Corp.”

Two weeks. Ouch!

Rapattoni plugs in

39Rapattoni announces integration with RPR Advanced Multi-List Platform (AMP)

“Rapattoni is a long-time industry partner and veteran MLS system developer,” said Dale Ross, CEO of RPR. “RPR is extremely pleased that Rapattoni has embraced the AMP™ concept of an open database with universal access for all licensed application innovators. Rapattoni has been a leader in providing both association management systems and MLS technology to REALTOR® associations for decades,” he continued. “We look forward to working with the Rapattoni team to help them bring the promise of the AMP™ system to their many MLS clients.”

Times, they are a changing…

2015 “Brass Balls” list

Lists, lists, and more lists. I’ve read a lot of lists in the past couple weeks. So, in honor of our site mascot, a picture of Alec Baldwin playing “Blake” in the film Glengarry Glen Ross holding two brass balls, I thought I’d kick off 2016 with a list of my own. These go individuals who made the news last year that have displayed that they have a pair, for better or worse.

Art Carter – California Statewide MLS
The day CRMLS launched the itsmybusiness.me site it showed that Art wasn’t afraid to stir things up.

David Charron and Tom Phillips – MLS Evolved
The narrative has always been that the egos of MLS executives would mean consolidation at any meaningful level would be impossible. David and Tom proved them all wrong by changing the game.

Chris Crocker – The Zillow “Whistleblower” letter
You can argue about his motives but the guy knew the possibility his identity would be revealed.

Dale Stinton and Dale Ross – Upstream and AMP
The relationship between NAR and MLS providers has never been great (or even good.) The launch of RPR (Realtor Property Resource) only served to increase the acrimony. But when NAR announced that RPR would be funding Upstream and AMP (both initiatives aimed directly to disrupt MLS providers) it took the more than brass, but maybe titanium balls to say “our members told us to do it”.

Kevin Tomlinson and “The Jills”
South Florida. Those two words can cause a involuntary eye roll in most. I don’t know which took more balls, “The Jills” who appear to have knowingly manipulated MLS data to protect their “1 percent” clients, or Kevin Tomlinson who looks to be caught on recording “blackmailing” both of them, (and subsequently being forcible arrested by the cops) and later declaring its all a “misunderstanding”.

A land war in Asia

Screen Shot 2015-12-01 at 10.13.55 PMKudos to Andrea Brambila at Inman News on a great article, MLSs anxious about their role in Upstream, about the MLS communities concerns regarding Upstream. It’s a great article and you should go read it now.

I think David summed it up best.

“MLSs are the default information exchange that facilitates tens of millions of dollars of residential real estate every minute. So it stands to reason we have questions,” David Charron, CEO of Metropolitan Regional Information Systems Inc. (MRIS), told Inman in an email. [W]e surely support the aspirational intentions of Upstream. But we will not sit quietly when the proposed solution places so much of the broker and agent business at risk.”

But, to me, it’s a bit more complicated. Who do MLSs want answers from? RPR? Upstream (the organization)? To me RPR is simply the vendor in this equation. Upstream is the client. And it turns out that Upstream (the client) doesn’t even know what they want. Here’s Cary Sylvester, from KW, one of Upstream’s Board members.

“Upstream is new and different and we don’t have all the answers yet; and this keeps us agile to create the best solution to meet those goals. What we do have is a structured discovery process we’ll work through with each MLS.”

W—T—F?

We don’t have a plan, but that’s great, because it means we are wide open to having a plan?

If Upstream is going to happen it is going to be about making the right choices. Any vendor, including RPR, might have the right partners, tech, and experience to pull this off, but they are going to have to help their clients understand what’s possible and what’s not.

I’m hoping that the people behind Upstream begin to realize that MLS providers provide a service that makes their most valuable asset, listings, even more valuable. And that they can start to think more inclusively about MLS providers being part of the over all solution, instead of just an arrow pointing out to a box on a diagram.

Robertson interviews Frame

This Friday I’ll be interviewing Marty Frame from RPR at the MLS Executives Session. I’ll be asking Marty a few questions about RPR, Upstream, AMP and maybe get some weight loss tips. I hope you’ll join me.

P.S. If you have any questions you would like me to ask just send them to me via email.

RPR inks deal with Upstream

RIS Media got the scoop yesterday…

NAR’s Realtors Property Resource Executes Definitive Agreement with UPSTREAM, Begins Development

“The National Association of Realtors® and its wholly owned subsidiary, Realtors Property Resource®, have signed a technology agreement with UPSTREAM™, a revolutionary industry-owned and controlled data management company, to develop UPSTREAM™’s cross-industry, state-of-the-art platform for real estate data entry, collection and distribution for real estate brokers.

A win’s a win.

Sponsored By MLS Reset