Where Real Estate Gets Its Dirt

Industry Relations Episode 48: What NAR’s Revised Code of Ethics Means for REALTORS – with Laura Farley

Not too long ago, REALTORS were unified, often claiming to be neither Democrat nor Republican but members of the REALTOR Party. Today, however, the polarization in our country is reflected in the real estate community. And the recent changes to the NAR Code of Ethics, specifically Standard of Practice 10-5, seem to have pushed us even farther apart. So, how are these changes likely to affect REALTORS in practice? Can we be more inclusive without favoring one political party over another? 

Laura Farley serves as General Counsel at the Virginia REALTORS Association, and she has more than 10 years of experience handling and supervising professional standards cases. Prior to joining the state association, Laura was an attorney for the Northern Virginia Association of REALTORS. On this episode of Industry Relations, Laura joins Rob and Greg to provide an overview of the three major changes to NAR’s Code of Ethics and offer insight into how those changes might impact real estate professionals now that the professional standards apply to everything a REALTOR does, real estate related or not.

Laura explains why NAR’s list of protected classes in Standard of Practice 10-5 is more inclusive than a lot of states and addresses the subjective nature of determining intent as well as the concerns that 10-5 gives some REALTORS more speech rights than others. She also discusses the significance of removing the word ‘willful’ from NAR’s definition of public trust, introducing us to the concept of disparate impact—and why it may or may not apply to Article 10. Listen in for Laura’s insight on how 10-5 has further polarized the REALTOR community and get her take on the best possible outcome around the revised Code of Ethics.

What’s Discussed:  

Laura’s decade of legal experience with professional standards cases

Laura’s overview of the 3 major changes to the NAR Code of Ethics

Why NAR’s list of protected classes is more inclusive than most state lists

The significance of the word ‘use’ in Standard of Practice 10-5 (REALTORS must not ‘use’ harassing speech, hate speech, epithets or slurs)

The controversy around how 10-5 gives some REALTORS more speech rights than others

The subjective nature of determining an agent’s intent to harm, hurt or harass

How Laura thinks about the concerns of REALTORS on the political right re: implicit bias

The significance of removing the word ‘willful’ from the definition of public trust

The concept of disparate impact and why it may or may not apply to Article 10

How the change to 10-5 has further polarized the REALTOR community

Connect with Laura:

Virginia REALTORS

Laura at Virginia REALTORS

Email: lfarley [at] virginiarealtors [dot] org

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

Laura’s Code of Ethics Update Video

Virginia REALTORS Code of Ethics Resources

NAR Code of Ethics Changes

NAR’s Code of Ethics & Standards of Practice

Rob’s Post on an Alternative to the New Speech Code

Virginia REALTORS Diversity & Inclusion PAG

Rob’s Post on Disparate Impact

Norwood v. Harrison

Railway v. Hanson

Jenna Ryan

Our Sponsors: 

Cloud MLX

Notorious VIP

Industry Relations Episode 50: An Epic Battle Between Opendoor + Zillow

Opendoor recently announced a merger with a special purpose acquisition company (or SPAC) Social Capital, a venture fund headed by rockstar VC Chamath Palihapitiya. This partnership puts the pioneering iBuyer on the same playing field with Zillow. And the battle between the two will be epic.

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are discussing what the competition between Opendoor and Zillow means for consumers, real estate agents, and the industry in general. Rob explains Zillow’s advantages in terms of customer acquisition and monetizing seller leads, and Greg describes Opendoor’s leverage when it comes to operational excellence (otherwise known as ‘eating BPS for breakfast’).

Rob and Greg go on to consider how Opendoor might catch up with Zillow when it comes to lead flow, either through an additional acquisition or by working with the industry. Listen in for insight around how this battle of the market-makers will make it easier to buy and sell houses and lower transaction costs—and how that will impact the real estate industry as a whole.

What’s Discussed: 

The benefits of a merger between Social Capital and Opendoor

What competition between Opendoor and Zillow means for consumers

Zillow’s advantage in terms of consumer audience and monetizing seller leads

Opendoor’s advantage when it comes to operational excellence

Rob’s prediction that Social Capital might also acquire either Redfin or Realtor.com

How Opendoor might work with the industry to generate lead flow

How competition between Opendoor and Zillow is likely to impact real estate as a whole

–Easier to buy and sell houses (mobility)

–Much lower transaction costs

How MLSs might change if transactions double while commissions are cut in half

Greg’s take on why it’s a great time to be a real estate agent

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Email gregrobertson@gmail.com

Resources:

‘Yelp: Nearly 16,000 Restaurants Have Permanently Closed Due to COVID’ in QSR

Social Capital

The Social Dilemma

Opendoor’s Merger with Social Capital

Rob’s 2014 Blog Post on Opendoor

iBuyer Connect

Stratechery’s Interview with Rich Barton

Social Capital’s 2019 Investor Letter

SimilarWeb

Opendoor’s September 2020 Investor Presentation

Rob’s Thought Experiment on Real Estate Agents & Productivity

The Art of the CMA by Greg Robertson

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Kim Roller-Hoereth joins ShowingTime

Kim

According to an internal message, Kim Roller-Hoereth is joining ShowingTime as an Industry Relations executive. She will work closely with Mike Lane and ShowingTime’s MLS sales and account management team to support MLSs, Boards, and Associations throughout the US and Canada.

Great gig for Kim, she’s an industry vet and well respected. Congrats to both Kim and ShowingTime.

Industry Relations Episode 56: Pacaso: A New Proptech Venture – with OGs Spencer Rascoff & Austin Allison

What happens when real estate tech royalty get together to brainstorm business ideas? Not surprisingly, a general discussion of underutilized assets lends itself to a new proptech venture. 

Spencer Rascoff (former CEO of Zillow) and Austin Allison (founder of dotloop) are the Cofounders of Pacaso, a startup working to democratize access to second homeownership. On this episode of the podcast, real estate tech OGs Spencer and Austin join Rob and Greg to discuss how Pacaso solves the problem around the underutilization of second homes and explain how consumers, agents, and brokers alike benefit from the service.

Spencer and Austin describe how Pacaso manages scheduling and dispute resolution, sharing what differentiates their product from a timeshare or the traditional DIY co-ownership model. Listen in for Spencer and Austin’s insight on current events in the industry, including the radical acceleration of tech adoption through COVID, the long-term impact of the DOJ lawsuit against NAR, and CoStar CEO Andy Florance’s attack on Zillow.

What’s Discussed:  

How Pacaso solves the problem around underutilization of second homes

How consumers, agents, and brokers benefit from Pacaso

What differentiates Pacaso from a timeshare

How Pacaso handles scheduling and what happens if one owner uses the home much more than the others

Why Spencer & Austin don’t see Airbnb as competition

How Pacaso manages dispute resolution and governance of a property

Why friction among owners is less likely with Pacaso vs. the DIY model

Spencer & Austin’s response to the idea that Pacaso is ‘rich people solving rich people problems’

How COVID has inspired a demand for co-ownership in city centers

How the digitization of real estate has accelerated through the pandemic and what that means for the industry

Why buyer side representation will not go away (despite the DOJ lawsuit)

Andy Florance’s attack on Zillow and how CoStar’s acquisition of Homesnap will impact residential real estate

Connect with Spencer & Austin:

Pacaso

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

dot.LA

Zillow’s Q2 2020 Earnings Call

Jack Ryan on Industry Relations EP055

CoStar’s Acquisition of Homesnap

Brad Inman’s Interview with Andy Florance

The FTC Suit to Block CoStar’s Acquisition of RentPath

Tomo

Our Sponsors: 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Industry Relations Episode: ELECTION SPECIAL=>A Civil Debate on the 2020 Presidential Election

We are days away from the most important election of our time. Will Trump win reelection? Or will Biden take office? What factors influence the way people are voting? And how will the real estate industry be affected either way?

On this episode of the podcast, Rob and Greg are sharing their predictions around who will win the upcoming presidential election, discussing how the handling of the pandemic is likely to influence voting and whether Americans will choose a candidate based on self-interest versus moral integrity.

Rob and Greg reflect on the last four years in terms of the economy in general and real estate specifically, debating whether a modern leader should (or even could) inspire and unite us AND get things done. Listen in for insight on separating Trump’s behavior from what he has accomplished as President and learn how our hosts think about getting the US back to a place of normal political discourse.

What’s Discussed:  

Rob and Greg’s predictions regarding who will win the presidential election

Choosing a candidate based on self-interest vs. moral integrity

How the handling of the pandemic might influence voting

Whether the governor or President should have more influence over the states

Greg’s call for a leader that can inspire and unite us rather than stoke the fires of division

Rob’s take that it’s less important that a leader be an inspiring orator and more important that they get things done

Separating Trump’s behavior from what he has accomplished as President

How the last four years have been good for the economy in general and real estate specifically

Whether the Democrats will accept Trump as the legitimate President

Getting the US back to a place of normal political discourse

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources: 

What’s the Matter with Kansas: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America Back by Thomas Frank

Termination of 2015 AFFH Rule

Our Sponsors: 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Industry Relations Episode 60: Unpacking the Panic Around Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime – with Nick Bailey, Chief Customer Officer at RE/MAX

Nick Bailey

As the real estate industry has evolved, we’ve been trained to focus on who owns the data. And Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime has many concerned about sharing their data with the proptech giant. But what if hoarding your data is not the only way to compete with a company like Zillow? What if it’s not really about access to the data but what you do with it? 

Nick Bailey is the Chief Customer Officer at RE/MAX. With nearly 25 years of industry experience, Nick served as an agent, broker and proptech vendor before becoming the head of a major real estate franchise. On this episode of Industry Relations, Nick joins Rob and Greg to share his take on Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime and what’s behind the industry’s emotionally-charged reaction.

Nick offers insight on how the data Zillow acquired was already publicly available, explaining why that information doesn’t necessarily give the tech company a competitive advantage and reminding us that it’s not unusual for companies at scale to offer various products and services to the industry at large. Listen in for Nick’s perspective on what we can do to improve the process of buying or selling a home for consumers and find out why you shouldn’t panic about Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime.

What’s Discussed:  

Nick’s background as an agent, broker, tech vendor and head of a major real estate franchise

Why Nick sees Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime as one tech company acquiring another to make the process of buying and selling homes easier for consumers

How ShowingTime’s market share influenced the industry’s emotionally-charged reaction to its acquisition 

Nick’s argument that the data Zillow has acquired was already publicly available

How Nick addresses the objection that the ShowingTime acquisition forces agents and brokers to provide Zillow with a competitive advantage

How it’s not unusual for companies at scale to offer various products and services (e.g.: RE/MAX’s acquisition of Motto Mortgage)

What Nick is doing to educate agents around the spirit of cooperation in the industry

How Nick thinks about whether Zillow is a RE/MAX competitor 

What the real estate industry can do to improve the fragmented process of buying or selling a home

Nick’s insight on what differentiates RE/MAX in competitive industry that includes a growing number of iBuyers

The trend toward a greater concentration of power among fewer agents and how that might contribute to the panic around Zillow

Nick’s advice for MLS, franchisor and large brokerage CEOs on using data to identify trends and create contingency plans accordingly

Connect with Nick:

Nick at RE/MAX

Nick on LinkedIn

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

ShowingTime’s Press Release on Its Acquisition by Zillow

Nick’s Video on Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime

Market Leader

Rob’s Post on Zillow, ShowingTime & Paranoid Realtors

First App

Steve Murray at REAL Trends

Motto Mortgage

NAR Code of Ethics

We Are RE/MAX on Facebook

Brad Inman’s Piece on Zillow & ShowingTime

Gary Keller’s 2021 Family Reunion Vision Speech Recap

The Art of the CMA: Win Hearts, Minds, and Loyalty by Mastering Real Estate’s Most Versatile Tool by Greg Robertson with Charles Warnock

Dave Liniger at RE/MAX

Our Sponsors: 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Industry Relations Episode 51: We Don’t Know What to Call Zillow Anymore!

Zillow started out as a listing portal or syndication site. But the company has evolved to become… Well, we’re actually not sure what to call it anymore. Perhaps ‘the Amazon of real estate’ is most appropriate. And on September 23, 2020, the company announced that it’s hiring employee-agents to streamline the iBuyer process. So, if Zillow is a brokerage now, what does that mean for the industry?

On this episode of the podcast, Rob and Greg are discussing Zillow’s decision to take its iBuyer operations in-house and how that move will impact other aspects of organized real estate. Our hosts explore how MLSs might respond to having Zillow as members and describe how access to MLS data could change the consumer experience on the Zillow site.

Rob and Greg go on to consider the impact of Zillow being part of NAR and state and local associations, weighing in on how their participation can be seen as a win for the industry. Listen in for insight on how Zillow’s announcement demonstrates their commitment to becoming an iBuyer-brokerage and learn how Zillow entering the system might lead to an improvement for everyone—or a ‘horror show.’

What’s Discussed: 

The evolution of listing portals into brokerage and iBuyer hybrid models

How Rob and Greg define brokerages differently

Zillow’s decision to use employee-agents to bring its iBuyer operations in-house

How MLSs are likely to respond to having Zillow as members

Rob’s theory on how Zillow might reposition its Industry Relations team

The potential impact of Zillow being part of NAR as well as state and local associations

How access to MLS IDX data and VOW rules could transform the consumer experience on Zillow

The leverage Zillow has in getting information from smaller MLSs

What makes Zillow’s shift a WIN for humans (and organized real estate)

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

Opendoor vs. Zillow on Industry Relations EP050

Greg’s Blog Post on BPP

Rob’s Blog Post on Zillow

Stop Zillow Campaign

Greg on Twitter

CLAW’s Delay to Syndication Feeds

REALTOR Political Action Committee

NAR’s Rules on Virtual Office Website

The 2008 DOJ-NAR Settlement Agreement

‘It’s a Good Life’ Episode of Twilight Zone

‘A Trifecta! NAR Sued Again Over Buyer-Broker Commissions’ in The Real Deal

Thomas Jefferson’s Quote on Change in Laws and Institutions

Collateral Analytics

Greg’s Blog Post on Zillow

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Industry Relations Episode 52: Racism in Real Estate – with Emily Chenevert & Kenya Burrell-VanWormer

**** NOTICE:  We recorded this pod using Zoom audio but had a few technical issues. The audio quality wasn’t great and at some point, Zoom stopped recording altogether.  We were able to piece together a good episode but not the whole conversation.  I’m super bummed, but we all agreed, even if it’s not the full conversation, it’s still something we wanted to put out there. ****

Systemic racism has its roots in housing. Government policies deliberately disadvantaged Black and Brown people, and that’s led to segregated communities, educational inequalities, and a substantial wealth gap. So, what can we do as an industry to address these disparities and better serve ALL of our clients?

On this episode of Industry Relations, Emily Chenevert, CEO of the Austin Board of Realtors, and Kenya Burrell-VanWormer, SVP of Diversity Solutions at T3 Sixty, join Rob and Greg to discuss the history of race discrimination in real estate, explaining how practices like redlining have stunted the Black community’s capacity to build generational wealth and why industry organizations need to recognize and publicly denounce the racism of the past.

Emily and Kenya share how the industry has improved, describing NAR’s shift to prioritize diversity and inclusion and exploring what organized real estate might do to further educate association members around equity moving forward. Listen in for insight on tackling homeownership disparities and learn what is (and what isn’t) our responsibility to do as an industry to address racial inequality in America.

What’s Discussed: 

The history of race discrimination in real estate (i.e.: redlining, racist land-use patterns)

How racism around housing has stunted the Black community’s ability to build generational wealth 

The government’s role in creating a wealth gap in the US

Why organizations like NAREB exist independently from NAR

Greg’s call for industry organizations to recognize and denounce the racism of the past (and what that might look like)

The shift from diversity and inclusion as an afterthought to a need within NAR

How we might educate association members around issues of equity

The lack of diversity among the leadership in real estate associations and MLSs

Why 25 of the 26 agents caught steering on Long Island are still working

Kenya’s insight on tackling homeownership disparity by way of education, opportunity, and resources

Emily’s experience with difficult conversations on race as Austin overhauls its land development code

What it’s our responsibility to do as an industry to address racial inequality (and what’s not in our lane)

Connect with Emily:

Austin Board of Realtors

Emily on LinkedIn

Scratch That Podcast

Connect with Kenya:

T3 Sixty

Kenya on LinkedIn

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

Michelle Mills Clement

The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America by Richard Rothstein

How the GI Bill’s Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans’ in History

Discrimination in Levittown

National Association of Real Estate Brokers

Richard Rothstein

Eddie S. Glaude Jr.

NAR Leadership Summit 2020

Bob Goldberg

The Chicago Association of Realtors’ Apology & Recommitment to Fair Housing

The Newsday Investigation on Steering

Fair Housing Act

M. Ryan Gorman

HAR Diversity and Inclusion Task Force

Austin’s Land Development Code Revision

NAR’s Code of Ethics

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Industry Relations Episode 55: Could a Commissions Drop Be Good for Real Estate? – with Jack Ryan of REX

Jack Ryan, CEO of REX

It has come to light in recent days that REX was the ‘power behind the throne’ in the Department of Justice’s lawsuit against NAR (and subsequent settlement). The suit alleged that the trade group’s rules on commissions artificially inflate the fees paid to real estate agents and put illegal restraints on competition in the market. So, what inspired the upstart firm to take its concerns to the DOJ?

Jack Ryan is the co-founder and CEO of REX, the digital alternative to the residential real estate agent. REX uses big data and AI to provide consumers with significant cost savings and improved customer experience. On this episode of the Industry Relations, Jack joins Rob and Greg to explain why REX went to the Department of Justice and address the perception that his team is hostile to organized real estate.

Jack offers his take on why a commissions drop is not bad news, describing his libertarian vision of the future of real estate and how all involved would benefit—including MLSs, brokers, agents, consumers, and communities. Listen in for Jack’s insight on eliminating the friction from the home buying process and find out what would have to change for REX to join the MLS.

What’s Discussed:  

Why REX went to the DOJ with NAR’s ‘illegal restraints’ on competition in the market

What differentiates REX from other residential real estate brokerages

What’s behind REX’s decision not to join the MLS

Eliminating repetitive, standardized activities to make the real estate transaction more efficient

What the REX workflow looks like from a buyer’s perspective

Why Jack is more concerned with changing the system than making money

Jack’s argument that a commissions drop is not bad news

How Jack thinks about eliminating the friction from buying and selling a home

How a seller benefits from working with REX in terms of cost savings and level of service

The perception that REX is hostile to organized real estate and what would have to change for Jack to join the MLS

Jack’s libertarian vision around the future of real estate

How REX’s AI continues to improve and Jack’s intent to make the tech available to other brokers and agents

Connect with Jack:

REX

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

Rob’s Piece on REX and the DOJ

Video of Jack on Vendor Alley

Jack’s article on Real Clear

NAR Code of Ethics

Our Sponsors: 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Industry Relations Episode 49: Why So-Called Disruptors Just Can’t Change Real Estate

For every tech platform that sets out to disrupt real estate, there’s a story of slow evolution to working with brokers and agents. And while companies like Zillow, Opendoor, and Offerpad have brought about minor changes to the home buying process, they always end up morphing into our traditional system. Why is it that these so-called disruptors just can’t change the way we do real estate?

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are exploring why would-be disruptors have such a hard time changing real estate. Greg walks us through his five-stages-of-grief analogy around how tech platforms always end up working with brokers and agents, and Rob compares real estate with the auto industry, reflecting on how little buying processes have changed despite advancements in technology. 

Rob and Greg go on to introduce the idea that the human connection is what prevents tech disruptors from succeeding in our industry, speculating that agent teams have been the biggest disruptor in real estate in recent years. Listen in for insight on how human knowledge and connection factor into making tech platforms successful and learn why the human need for approval is not disruptable. 

What’s Discussed: 

Rob’s take on the two possible reasons why disruptors have trouble in real estate

–System has been perfected over time

–Entrenched infrastructure (need billions to play)

Greg’s five-stages-of-grief analogy re: how disruptors end up working with agents

The similarities and differences between real estate and the auto industry

–Way we buy + sell changed little in spite of technology

–Remember dealership but not broker (agents ≠ employees)

How technology has expanded consumer knowledge around price, inventory, etc.

Greg’s insight that real estate tech disruptors struggle because they lack human connection

Why agent teams have been the biggest disruptor in real estate in recent years

How Zillow has evolved its Zestimate algorithm to include human knowledge

Why Rob believes that our human need for approval is not disruptable 

What makes Zillow the most likely platform to cause true disruption in real estate

The Tom Ferry study around top agents living paycheck to paycheck

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

Rob’s Blog on Innovation in Real Estate

TrueCar’s No-Haggle Price

Notorious ROB on Facebook

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Sponsored By VESTAPlus