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Industry Relations Episode 41: 10 Defining Moments & Trends in the Last Decade of Real Estate

December 20th, 2019

On January 1, 2010, organized real estate was still reeling from the recession. Dale Stinton was steering the ship at NAR. Zillow was seen as the enemy of the MLS. Real estate software was meh. Agent teams were rare. Nearly all brokerages took a split. Selling your house online seemed outrageous. And we still signed documents in pen.

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are looking back at the last 10 years in real estate. They discuss the passing NAR’s MLS Statement 8.0 Clear Cooperation Policy, debating the significance of the office exclusives loophole and how it might lead to government involvement. Our hosts also express their disappointment around the Newsday investigation in Long Island, Testing the Divide, challenging brokerage leadership to make a strong statement against the egregious racism it uncovered.

Greg and Rob go on to share their top 10 defining moments and trends with the biggest impact on the industry over the last decade, describing how the rise of agent teams, 100% commission brokerages, the iBuyer model and consolidation have transformed organized real estate. Listen in for insight into how NAR’s decision to fund RPR and Upstream changed the way the MLS saw Zillow and explore how the space has evolved from 2010 through the end of 2019.

Editor’s Note: We did record an Episode 40 that was never aired. It was about Policy 8.0 but wasn’t ready before the vote. After the vote passed we decided it didn’t add to anything to the issue.

What’s Discussed:

NAR’s passing of the MLS Statement 8.0 Clear Cooperation Policy

Rob & Greg’s take on the Newsday investigation in Long Island

How the loophole in 8.0 could lead to government involvement

The 10 defining trends/events in the last decade of real estate

The end of poorly designed software
The rise and domination of agent teams
The transition in leadership at NAR
Opendoor pioneering the iBuyer model
Zillow’s acquisition of Trulia
100% commission brokerages
Consolidation and the influx of capital
The practice of buying agents/agent teams
The mainstreaming of digital signatures
NAR’s decision to fund RPR + Upstream

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

MLS Clear Cooperation Policy

Compass Pre-Litigation Letter to Bright MLS

Bright’s Response to Compass

Newsday Documentary: Testing the Divide

Rob’s Blog on the Newsday Piece

1000watt Article on Real Estate Software

The Millionaire Real Estate Agent by Gary Keller with Dave Jenks and Jay Papasan

Ben Thompson Interview with Rich Barton

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

Industry Relations 39: Does MLS Policy Statement 8.0 Do Enough to End Exclusive Listings?

October 9th, 2019

It’s our CMLS Conference Pre-Show Podcast! In an effort to curb the rampant growth of Coming Soon listings, NAR’s Multiple Listing Issues and Policies Committee has issued a proposal to clarify the Clear Cooperation Policy. But will the guidelines actually put an end to pocket listings? Are the rules a good compromise? Or should the MLS die on the hill of all-or-nothing, requiring members to list there first?

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg discuss NAR’s draft MLS Policy Statement 8.0, exploring whether the guidelines go far enough in preventing exclusive listings. Rob explains why the 24-hour submission window and the concession around office exclusives are a problem, arguing that the MLS must take a stand NOW to establish itself as the primary marketplace for property listings.

Greg challenges Rob’s view that the MLS is not already the primary marketplace, applauding the 24-hour window as a reasonable and clever compromise and arguing that pocket listings are a breach of fiduciary duty. Listen in to understand Rob’s proposal to extend the all-in IDX rules to MLS membership as a whole and consider how Policy Statement 8.0 will (or will not) impact the pocket listing strategies employed by large national brokerages.

What’s Discussed:

Rob’s take that NAR MLS Policy 8.0 doesn’t go far enough

– 24-hour submission window
– Office exclusives not prohibited

Whether the MLS is the marketplace or a data repository

The potential confusion around one-to-one communication

What does and does not qualify as marketing under 8.0

Greg’s view of the 24-hour window as a clever compromise

How Rob defines a primary marketplace as first-in-time

Greg’s challenge that 70% of deals qualifies as ‘primary’

Why Greg sees pocket listings as a code of ethics issue

Extending IDX all-in rules to MLS membership as a whole

How exclusive listings benefit large national brokerages

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

CMLS Annual Conference

NAR MLS Policy 8.0

MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board

Rob’s Post on MLS Policy Statement 8.0

Sam Debord’s Response to Rob’s Post

Rob’s Follow Up Post on MLS Policy Statement 8.0

NAR 2019 Home Buyers and Sellers Generational Trends Report

2019 Zillow Group Consumer Housing Trends Report

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

Listing Bits Episode 66: How Standards Streamline PropTech – with Sam DeBord of RESO

March 9th, 2021

Policy may not be sexy, but without standards around how we format real estate data and build technology systems, we simply can’t share data or integrate the tools we need to do our jobs well.

Sam DeBord serves as CEO of the Real Estate Standards Organization, the trade group responsible for developing the open standards that drive efficiency and streamline technology for the industry. His resume includes a wide range of leadership positions in the real estate space, including President’s Liaison for MLS and Data Management at NAR and VP of Government Affairs with Washington Realtors. Sam is also the VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth in Seattle and writes for REALTOR Magazine, Inman News and the Swanepoel Trends Report.

On this episode of Listing Bits, Sam describes RESO’s role in the real estate industry, explaining how the standards set by his organization provide certainty for developers and support data shares and tech integrations. He shares the progress RESO has made in the last year, discussing what they have done to streamline compliance certifications and initiate the proposed Listing Exchange Access Policy. Listen in for Sam’s insight on the constraints of the current market (and the new tech that’s emerged as a result) and find out how he thinks about the kerfuffle surrounding the most recent mergers and acquisitions in the real estate space.

What’s Discussed: 

What RESO does to create efficiencies and streamline tech for the real estate industry

RESO’s evolution to an independent trade organization and how it relies on thousands of volunteer SMEs to build its Workgroups

RESO’s recent work to streamline its compliance certifications and create a new development guide for vendors

How RESO standards provide certainty for developers and support data shares and integrations

Why Sam is a proponent of creating a single policy for how data is used and displayed (and how that would help brokers)

RESO’s work with the broker community and CMLS to draft the proposed Listing Exchange Access Policy

The progress RESO has made in just the last year to align industry trade organizations, brokers and MLSs around common goals

How RESO standards helped facilitate the NorCal MLS Alliance

Sam’s take on how the artificial constraints of the current market impact agents and the tech facilitating the trend to buy homes sight unseen

How Sam thinks about the most recent mergers and acquisitions in the real estate space

Why proptech companies need to recognize our cultural preference to work with an agent

The potential problems associated with a broker-member of an MLS being paid by that MLS for a technology service

Connect with Sam:

Real Estate Standards Organization

Email sam[at]reso[dot]org

Sam on Twitter

Resources:

RESO Workgroups

RESO Web API Tools & Software

RESO’s Broker Advisory Workgroup

RESO Certification

2020 RESO Certification Updates

Andy Woolley

CMLS

NAR

NAR’s MLS Technology & Emerging Issues Advisory Board

Summary of NAR’s 2021 MLS Policy Changes

CMLS’s Participant Data Access Policy

LeadingRE

The Realty Alliance

CMLS’s CCP Implementation Guide

RESO Compliance Guide

NorCal MLS Alliance

Zillow Economist Jeff Tucker on Industry Relations EP059

CoStar

Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime

Greg on Twitter

RESO’s Unique Organizational Identifier (UOI)

Victor Lund at WAV Group

RESO Remix

RESO’s 2021 Fall Conference

Our Sponsor:

Cloud CMA

#ICYMI Friday 9.4.20

September 4th, 2020

There was a one of those challenges on Twitter – “Share a picture from January 2020 that shows you had no idea what was coming.” Here’s mine (and if I remember correctly that was just the beginning of a great night):

W+R and NTREIS New York City, January 2020

Dotloop and C.A.R. struck a deal. Is Marnie going to retire now?

Jessica Swesey from 1000watt tells us, “This is not the end”. Thank you, Jessica, I needed this.

I was attending/presenting at the Tom Ferry’s virtual Success Summit. Tom is a marvel, and I really liked this “hack” he uses at his event. Tom realizes that unless he is engaged with his audience they aren’t engaged with him.

More home sales in 2020 than in 2019. Wait, what?

Congrats to Bob Evans on his new role as head of the Industry Relations Group at realtor.com.

Enjoy the long weekend everyone. Take care of each other.

Industry Relations Episode 38: What the Tinder-ization of Everything Means for Real Estate

October 2nd, 2019

Tremors, in and of themselves, cause minimal damage. But sometimes those tremors are the precursor to something a whole lot bigger. Organized real estate is ripe with these little shakeups, and whether you’re a brokerage, franchiser, vendor, portal or agent, the Tinder-ization of everything WILL impact your business. It’s already changing the way we generate leads and may very well eliminate outbound marketing as a viable option.

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg discuss a few of the current tremors making waves in organized real estate, starting with the new FCC rule allowing mobile carriers to block unknown callers. They explain how the iOS 13 update might impact lead generation and why inbound and content marketing will become crucial in light of these changes.

Rob goes on to explore how the death of outbound marketing could make agent teams that much more important and challenges the idea that agents working with teams qualify as independent contractors under California Assembly Bill 5. Listen in for Greg’s insight around how high agent turnover impacts the way SaaS vendors do business and learn why nimbleness and brand recognition are key to survival in the real estate space.

What’s Discussed:

The new FCC rule allowing mobile carriers to block unknown callers

How the iOS 13 update will impact lead generation in real estate

Greg’s insight around the value of inbound + content marketing

How the death of outbound marketing will make agent teams even more important

The distinction between independent contracts and employees in California AB-5

Rob’s argument that team leads qualify as employers under AB-5

How 30% agent churn impacts the way real estate vendors do business

Why SaaS companies in real estate must focus on customer experience

The idea that every day is Day One in establishing brand recognition

Why being nimble is the key to survival in the real estate industry

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

CMLS Annual Conference

GVLAR MLS Tech Forum

Reimagine! 2019 Los Angeles

REALTORS with Guns Facebook Group

Rob’s Interview with Chris Drayer

Greg’s Post on Telesales

FCC Rule on Blocking Unknown Callers

California Assembly Bill 5

Chris Drayer’s Post on the Death of Lead Gen

CallAction’s Post on iOS 13

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

C.A.R. closes the loop

September 1st, 2020

California Association of Realtors® (C.A.R.) Standard Forms Now Available Directly Within Dotloop – No Uploading Required

“This is an important addition to dotloop’s transaction management platform and one that will provide enhanced value for both current and future California-based users,” says Marnie Blanco, dotloop VP, Industry Relations. “With direct access to C.A.R.’s Standard Forms, California-based agents, transaction coordinators, teams and brokers can now ensure their transactions close in the most seamless and efficient means possible.”
California agents will no longer need to download and import forms into the dotloop platform, thereby saving them valuable time.”

Great win for Zillow and their dotloop users. No mention of any financial terms. I still remember being there when Austin Allison was on stage with Joel Singer debating the use of these copyrighted forms on dotloop. Austin thought it was perfectly okay to use these copyrighted forms in dotloop without permission or license. When I asked Austin how many songs he had on his iPod that he actually paid for, I got a few laughs from the audience but Austin looked confused.

Hard to believe this all went down seven years ago. I wonder if he is going to crack open a Cab tonight and pour one out in celebration.

Industry Relations Episode 35: The DOJ’s Scrutiny of Cooperating Compensation

June 10th, 2019

Industry Relations has been nominated by Inman News Innovator award for INNOVATIVE VIDEO/PODCAST SHOW. Thanks for everyone’s support!

And now, on with the show…

When Moehrl v. NAR was introduced in March, the industry response was largely… meh. Then in April, the Department of Justice reached out to the top MLS platform vendor, requiring documents and testimony about MLS data—with a specific focus on cooperating compensation. What is the DOJ likely to find? How might this information impact the class action suit? And what does it all mean for the real estate industry as a whole?

Today, Rob and Greg are discussing the Civil Investigative Demand (CID) CoreLogic recently received from the DOJ. They address the possibility of getting compensation data in the absence of a search feature on the MLS and predict whether the DOJ will find buyer-steering to be a widespread phenomenon.

Rob offers his take on why a directive requiring the disclosure of sold information would be more likely than new regulations, and Greg speculates that the industry is unlikely to stand by while the government eliminates cooperating compensation. Listen in to understand how the plaintiff attorneys in Moehrl v. NAR might use the DOJ’s findings and learn why organized real estate needs to take the lawsuit seriously.

What’s Discussed:

The Civil Investigative Demand CoreLogic received from the DOJ

Getting compensation data without a feature search on the MLS

What a DOJ study demonstrating buyer steering might achieve

Why disclosure of sold info is more likely than new regulations

How many brokers + agents script for the commission question

How DOJ findings might be used by attorneys in Moehrl v. NAR

How the Canadian Competition Bureau handled this issue

The potential impact of eliminating cooperating compensation

How it could take up to 10 years to resolve the class action case

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

Rob’s Post on CoreLogic & the DOJ

Rob’s 2015 Post on the NBER Study

Randy Ora’s Live Listing Presentation

Rob’s Post on the Brookings Institute Panel

Competition Bureau of Canada Resolution

Inman Coast to Coast Facebook Group

MLS Policy 8.0

October 7th, 2019

Advisory Board Proposes MLS Policy to Fuel Broker Cooperation

“The National Association of REALTORS® is considering a change in the association’s MLS policy aimed at creating greater cooperation between brokerages within MLSs. The “Clear Cooperation Policy“ proposal is straightforward: Brokers who are MLS participants must share listings with other brokers in the MLS if those listings are being publicly marketed. NAR is seeking member feedback on the policy before the association’s Multiple Listing Issues and Policies Committee addresses it at the REALTORS® Conference & Expo in San Francisco this November “

I’ve been asked about my thoughts on this draft. What I can say is that I think this draft policy is a great first step. While nothing is perfect we need to start somewhere and the way 8.0 is drafted I think is smart and thoughtful.

I’ve been pretty steady on my opinions about pocket listings and how they can hurt the industry. In my opinion, except in rare circumstances, the practice needs to stop.

I had a great conversation with Michael Wurzer on Listing Bits about this issue that if you haven’t listened to it yet you should. Michael is a bit more sanguine about the issue, but thoughtful as ever.

I about to start recording a Industry Relations podcast (which I hope to have ready before CMLS) with Rob Hahn this morning where we will duke it out over whether MLS Policy 8.0 goes far enough. Wish me luck!

Listing Bits and Industry Relations nominated for 2 “Inman Innovator Awards”

June 11th, 2019

I was pleasantly surprised to see 2 podcasts I produce nominated for Inman Innovator Awards. I believe this is the first year of this category (INNOVATIVE VIDEO/PODCAST SHOW).

Rob and I are on our 36th episode of Industry Relations and both of us are having a great time. I think of it as the directors commentary (nod to The Talk Show) for both our blogs.

Listing Bits has also been fun. Getting to have conversations with people I admire and respect has been a great experience and I plan on doing many more. Two of my favorite episodes include my conversations with Marc Davison of 1000watt and Glenn Kelman, CEO of Redfin.

Also nominated in the same category is Emily Chenevert’s excellent podcast, ScratchThat. I’m also a big fan of Russ Cofano’s Gradually Then Suddenly podcast too. And if you are an agent, Tom Ferry’s podcast, The Tom Ferry Podcast Experience is a don’t miss.

There are other categories too, but I’ll write about those for another post. Good luck to everyone nominated!

Industry Relations Episode 36: The Fundamental Flaws in the Traditional Brokerage Model

June 21st, 2019

Traditional brokerages got 99 problems. They’ve got to compete with iBuyers. They’ve got to compete with 100% commission models. They’ve got to innovate new products and services. They’ve got to figure out a way to make money off those products and services. And they’ve got to worry about potential industry regulations and the insane amount of capital flowing in to would-be disruptors. So, what can brokerages do to address the fundamental flaws in the traditional model—and survive the next five years?

Today, Rob and Greg are discussing the top issues traditional brokerages face and what they can do about it. They address the implications around Compass’ renewed focus on product and Wall Street analyst John Campbell’s comments regarding the tipping point Realogy and other traditional brokerages face.

Rob and Greg weigh in on the fact that brokerages LOSE money on top producers and the challenge of monetizing products and services for agents. Listen in for insight around the future of traditional models like that of Realogy and RE/MAX and learn how agents and brokerages might adapt to the disruptions facing the real estate industry.

What’s Discussed:

The public interest argument for representing the buyer’s side

The implications around Compass’ renewed focus on product

John Campbell’s comments on the tipping point Realogy faces

The issues around productivity in a traditional brokerage model

Why brokers need to make money through products + services

How brokerage iBuyer initiatives are really listing lead programs

Why Upstream doesn’t address the problems brokers face now

The fundamental flaws in the traditional brokerage model

The future of Realogy, RE/MAX, Redfin, eXp and Home Services

What agents might do in a world with 60% iBuyer market share

Connect with Rob and Greg: