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Industry Relations Episode 31: Conversations Around Disruptors & Data at Inman Connect 2019—with Sam DeBord

February 10th, 2019

At Inman Connect, the top movers and shakers in real estate come together to learn about the latest technology and explore what’s next for the industry. And in 2019, the hot topics include disruptors like Compass and eXp, the impact of data aggregators on the MLS, and the relevance of franchisers in light of tech centric startup brokerages. So, what are the most interesting conversations happening at the conference this year? And what SHOULD we be talking about?

Today, Rob and Greg are sharing the highlights of Inman & CEO Connect (live from the lobby of the Marriott Marquis), discussing how the conference focuses on the intersection of real estate and technology and what predictions Inman has gotten right over the years. They speak to Brad Inman’s interview with Rob Reffkin, Ben Kinney’s talk knocking brands like Compass and eXp, and the conversation among brokers, franchisers and tech company CEOs regarding the MLS. Rob asks why no one is talking about Redfin, and Greg predicts when the industry will recognize it as a significant force.

Then Rob and Greg snag Sam DeBord, Managing Broker and VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth in Seattle, to get his take on Kinney’s advice to brokers and the research around stock options and franchise loyalty. Listen in to understand why franchises need to make their value offerings more obvious and easy to use—and learn why Greg believes the mortgage space is ripe for disruption.

What’s Discussed:

The highlights of the Inman Connect conference in NYC

How technology has (and has not) impacted real estate

Brad Inman’s interview with Rob Reffkin at CEO Connect
-Leak of Pacific Union acquisition
-Concerns re: data aggregators

Ben Kinney’s criticisms of brands like Compass and eXp

When the industry will recognize Redfin as a significant force

The talk among brokers and tech CEOs around the MLS

The tech community’s struggle re: cooperation and compensation

How Inman called the rise of the iBuyer model

Kinney’s advice to brokers on prepping agents for a market shift

Sam’s insight on the research around stock options and loyalty

Why franchises need to make value offerings easy to use

Why the mortgage space is ripe for disruption

Connect with Sam:

Sam at Seattle Home

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Resources:

Greg’s Post on HouseCanary

HouseCanary

When Software Eats the Real (Estate) World

Steve Murray Real Trends Research

Divvy

Industry Relations Episode 30: A Closer Look at the Compass Vision Statement

December 31st, 2018

We know that Compass is built around technology and that the real estate company has a shit ton of money—$4.4B, to be exact. But what else do we know about the tools and resources Compass offers its agents or the direction the company might take moving forward? Lucky for us, the firm’s most recent vision statement was published online, and while it was incredibly inspiring, the presentation also raised a number of questions.

Rob and Greg welcome special guest Sunny Lake Hahn, partner at 7DS Associates, to offer a broker’s perspective as they discuss the Compass vision statement. Greg offers an overview of the presentation, covering the suite of products and services that Compass offers their agents and CEO Robert Reffkin’s inspiring personal story and message of empowerment. Sunny explains why she was impressed by the company’s COO offering for agents as well as their technology feedback loop.

Rob, Greg and Sunny debate whether Compass can provide a consistent user experience, describing how the company does offer continuity in terms of tools, resources and consumer-agent interaction. Greg shares his take on why wooing agents with a payout might be problematic, and Rob speaks to Compass’ potential play to generate revenue through preferred vendors. Listen in for Sunny’s perspective of Reffkin’s emphasis on female entrepreneurs and learn more about what differentiates Compass—and what makes it just like all the other brokerages.

What’s Discussed:

Compass’ strategic decision to publish their vision statement

The suite of products and services Compass offers their agents

CEO Robert Reffkin’s inspiring personal story and message

Sunny’s insight on the value of Compass’ tech feedback loop

Compass’ contract provision around using the tools provided

Why Compass cannot guarantee a consistent user experience

How Compass can provide continuity in terms of resources

Greg’s take on why wooing agents with a payout is problematic

The potential for Compass to leverage the ‘referral economy’

Sunny’s view of Reffkin’s message on female entrepreneurs

Sunny’s idea for brokers to execute on the COO offering locally

Resources:

Compass

The Compass Vision

Women Up

Glenn Kellman’s Gender Pay Study

The Red Dot

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

All I want for Christmas is for NAR to fund RESO a million dollars next year

December 24th, 2019

Now more than ever I feel that RESO has a lot of momentum of helping the industry crack the problem of standards. Many people have led to this stage. I credit Jeremy Crawford for really transforming RESO from a small group of dedicated members to a large industry powerhouse made of people from all roles of organized real estate to help push standards further.

I’ll also give credit to Art Carter and Rebecca Jensen. Both prodded (shamed?) a lot of us to be more involved. Art was also key in the hiring of Sam DeBord. Sam brings a business acumen to the RESO leadership that I believe is a crucial step in helping make standards a reality.

At the time of his hiring, I wrote the industry needs to “step up and give Sam and RESO our full support.”

That time is now. I’ve heard that NAR budget for RESO is less than $300K a year. That is shocking. When I think of the millions of dollars spent on RPR, AMP, and Upstream it boggles my mind. Less than $300K?

The arguments for standards in real estate data don’t need to be re-stated here, but to keep this momentum going, RESO needs proper funding. Membership dues and events can only do so much.

In the most recent episode of my podcast, Industry Relations, I recapped the biggest new events of the decade. One of them was the accession of Bob Goldberg to the role of CEO for the National Association of REALTORS. Bob has stated and has delivered on the promise of being more inclusive, wanting to be a partner to new technology companies, and therefore keep NAR members in the mix. I can’t help but think the role of standards fits perfectly into this message.

So on Christmas Eve and the second day of Hanukkah, all I want is for NAR to bring RESO funding to a level where they can do the work needed to bring standards to life.

Industry Relations Episode 29: UpstreamRE’s Relationship Status & a16z’s Scathing Review of Real Estate

December 21st, 2018

Look into your crystal ball and ask about the future of real estate. A venture capitalist’s vision of the industry eliminates agents entirely in favor of the data a tech company can provide. A number of brokers are hoping to go back to the future and once again serve as the gatekeepers for real estate listings. Meanwhile UpstreamRE can’t seem to get a clear picture of its future at all. Will software ‘eat the real (estate) world’ as the recent a16z video suggests? Will brokerages find a way to regain control of their listings? Will UpstreamRE ever nail down an objective?

Rob and Greg start their review of recent real estate news with a discussion of the humbling Andreessen Horowitz video exposing the obvious flaws in organized real estate. They cover Alex Rampell’s argument against the narrative of agent as ‘trusted advisor’ and his thesis that metrics will eventually replace agents. Rob describes how technology might impact the future number of real estate agents and how much consumers will be willing to pay for guidance from a professional.

Greg shares his frustration with the ‘obvious BS’ surrounding UpstreamRE’s breakup with NAR, offering his take on why the alliance didn’t work and the new narrative around the company’s purpose. Rob and Greg both deliver their predictions regarding who UpstreamRE’s new vendor might be and how MLS providers may view the project’s latest pivot. Listen in for insight into the futility of broker efforts to regain control of listings and learn why UpstreamRE’s new vendor may want to ask for their money up front!

What’s Discussed:

The Andreessen Horowitz video on organized real estate

Alex Rampell’s argument against the ‘trusted advisor’

The prediction that metrics and data will replace agents

Mike Delprete’s insight on loss aversion in transactions

Money and partnerships vs. execution in tech startups

The impact of tech on the number of real estate agents

Why UpstreamRE’s partnership with NAR didn’t work

The new narrative around UpstreamRE’s objectives

Rob & Greg’s predictions re: UpstreamRE’s new vendor

How MLS providers may view UpstreamRE’s latest pivot

The futility of broker efforts to regain control of listings

Resources:

Andreessen Horowitz

a16z Podcast

When Software Eats the Real (Estate) World

The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answersby Ben Horowitz

Who Is Michael Ovitz?by Michael Ovitz

Creative Artists Agency

PropTech CEO Summit

Divvy

Mike Delprete on Loss Aversion

Rob’s Upstream Post

Greg’s Upstream Post

New York TimesFinancial Crisis 2019 Article

The Red Dot

W+R Studios

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Listing Bits Episode 51: The Unique Value Prop of the MLS – with Michael Wurzer of FBS

September 20th, 2019

Michael Wurzer is 100% confident of one thing: The MLS creates value in the real estate market that doesn’t exist in any other way. No one else has created enough trust to generate that same level of cooperation among competitors. And rather than being a scourge to brokers, Michael argues that the MLS powers the market. That unique value prop is the reason why he believes current trends will prove the value of the MLS—not kill it.

Michael is the CEO of FBS, the leading innovator of MLS technology. He has 22 years at the helm of this highly-respected real estate software brand which was named one of Forbes2019 Small Giant companies. On this episode of Listing Bits, Michael addresses the trend toward off-market listings, sharing his take on why it’s not a threat to the MLS. He weighs in on the potential creation of a ‘vendors association’ that would afford prescreened developers access to real estate data.

Michael also discusses the likelihood of consolidation in the MLS vendor space, tech adoption in the employee versus independent contractor models, and the importance of data in light of high agent churn. Listen in for insight around the value of integration among real estate tech vendors and learn Michael’s take on the role of the MLS in creating choice for its members.

What’s Discussed:

How standards are key in making software easier to build

The trend toward off-market listings and its impact on the MLS

The idea that pocket listings are a kind of DIY-Upstream

The resilience of the MLS community and its unique value prop

The creation of a ‘vendor’s association’ to prescreen developers

Why ShowingTime’s acquisitions of CSS is a holy shit moment

The likelihood of consolidation in the MLS vendor space

Tech adoption in employee vs. independent contractor models

The importance of data in light of high agent churn

Why SaaS marketing techniques don’t work in real estate

The value of integration among vendors and with the MLS

The role the MLS plays in creating choice for its members

Resources:

Pocket Listings on Industry Relations EP037

Inman Panel on the MLS & iBuyers

Michael’s ‘Death of MLS?’ Blog Post

Andy Woolley at Homes.com

Swanepoel Trends Report

ShowingTime’s Acquisition of CSS

Lone Wolf Technologies

Software is Eating Real Estate on Industry Relations EP029

Cloud CMA Developers Page

BombBomb

Curaytor

Connect with Michael:

FBS

Flexmls

Michael on LinkedIn

Industry Relations Episode 28: Predicting the Winners in Real Estate by Way of Research—with Brad Safalow

November 30th, 2018

We can all agree that the real estate industry is evolving quickly. Is there any way to predict who the winners in the space will be over the next few years? Brad Safalow has done nine years of research surveying hundreds of real estate agents on the housing market in general, online lead generation, marketing and technology. Curious what all that data might tell us about the future of industry players like Zillow, Redfin and Realogy? What about the potential market share of the growing iBuyer model? Or how independent brokerages might respond to the competition?

Brad is the founder of Please Act Accordingly Research, an independent research firm providing investment ideas to professional money managers and high-net-worth individuals. He began his career in the leveraged finance group at JPMorgan before joining RiverEdge Capital, a global equity hedge fund, where he specialized in small/mid cap stocks and short idea generation. Brad has been serving clients through PAA since 2009, generating 6+ action-oriented investment ideas annually, with high absolute return potential.

Today, Brad joins Rob and Greg to share a high-level overview of his report on the real estate industry. Brad shares his take on the challenges Zillow is facing with the backlash against Premier Agent 4 and its foray into the iBuyer market. Rob highlights the concentration of power in real estate and its influence on Zillow’s continued success, and Greg asks about the pros and cons of the iBuyer model and its potential share of the marketplace moving forward. Brad also shares his experience working with Redfin versus a traditional brokerage, and they offer insight around how Redfin’s national ad campaign might prove to be a seminal moment in the industry. Listen in to understand how independent brokerages like Keller Williams and Realogy are responding to the iBuyer threat and a potential shift in commission structure—and get Brad, Rob and Greg’s predictions around the winners and losers in the space over the next three years.

What’s Discussed:

The PAA annual survey of real estate agents

A high-level overview of Brad’s report

The reasons why Zillow’s stock is taking a hit

How Zillow’s growth depends on agent teams

Why Zillow launched Premier Agent 4

How Zillow responded to backlash against PA4

The concentration of power in the industry

Why Zillow is pursuing the iBuyer model

The iBuyer’s potential share of the market

How Zillow may profit as a mortgage business

Efforts to improve the consumer experience

Redfin vs. the traditional brokerage experience

The impact of Redfin’s national ad campaign

The effects a shift in commission structure

The fear/panic among independent brokerages

Gary Keller’s understanding of the iBuyer threat

Realogy’s doubling down on traditional strategy

Resources:

The Red Dot Report

Cloud Agent Suite

W+R Studios

Connect with Brad:

PAA Research

PAA on Twitter

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Inman Connect – Las Vegas. Are you ready?

July 18th, 2019

I gotta be honest. I’m a little nervous. A full week in Vegas? Yikes. At the same time I’m super pumped. Brad has put together a jammed pack agenda (the best ever?) As a real estate geek I’m going to be in heaven.

You got Mike DelPrete talking about iBuying. Mike is an expert on iBuying and his presentations always give me great insight. Also, Molly Bloom, the women who ran the most exclusive poker parties in Hollywood (great movie Molly’s Game, if you haven’t already seen it), I’m in! Plus Brad is going to interview Zillow CEO Rich Barton, Eric Wu, CEO of Opendoor and my personal favorite GFK (Glenn Fucking Kelman), CEO of Redfin. And that’s just a taste, there’s tons more great content.

Dan and I arrive Monday. And we are bringing a lot of the W+R team with us, so we will be rolling deep!

W+R Studios’ very own Katie Smithson will be on a Data Track panel Thursday at 3:45 PM, discussing with RESO CEO, Sam DeBord, “The Technology Driving Data Policies”.

If you are looking for a bit of an Inman Connect warm up, please check out the latest Industry Relations episode with Rob Hahn (recent Vegas transplant) and I. Which reminds me that on Thursday at 11:45 they will be announcing the Inman Innovator award winners. Two podcasts I produce, Listing Bits and the previously mentioned, Industry Relations are both nominated. ????

And of course I really looking forward to the great conversations I know I will be having with all of you.

But, I feel that I must leave you with this important Public Service Announcement (PSA). I feel that now more than ever, you need to really embrace it…

Industry Relations Episode 26: Reframing the iBuyer Phenomenon

August 10th, 2018

Today’s consumer is used to pushing a button and having magic happen. (Thank you for the insight Jeremy Waxman.) And more often than not, we are willing to pay an extra fee for things like convenience and certainty. For this reason alone, the iBuyer phenomenon is here to stay, and the real estate industry would do well to consider how traditional agents might participate in the changing market.

Rob and Greg are back to offer a different perspective on the iBuyer movement, discussing how the industry is misunderstanding the phenomenon. Greg explains how organized real estate might address the consumer experience by partnering with a large financial institution to ‘be the bank’ and Rob shares his take on FSBOs and iBuyers as opposite ends of a spectrum—with the traditional REALTOR experience in the middle.

Rob and Greg address fiduciary duty, describing the conflict of interest that occurs when agents have the capacity to make on offer on a prospect’s home. They cover the difference between iBuyers and traditional house flippers, describing the considerable capital behind companies like Offerpad and Opendoor and the significance of Zillow’s recent acquisition of a mortgage lender. Listen in for insight around iBuyers moving into high-dollar markets and learn how agents fit into a future world where iBuyers are the default.

What’s Discussed:

How the industry is misunderstanding the iBuyer phenomenon

-Intention to change process of buying/selling home

-Company to figure out user experience wins

How MLS and association execs might consider the agent experience

Greg’s proposal around NAR partnering with a financial institution

Rob’s prediction that the iBuyer movement is here to stay

The conflict of interest agents face in offering to buy a client’s home

Rob’s take on FSBOs and iBuyers as opposite ends of a spectrum

-Working with REALTOR = middle ground

The potential ‘buyification’ of the brokerage business

Why iBuyers are not as vulnerable as traditional house flippers

The significance of Zillow’s acquisition of Mortgage Lenders of America

The tipping point when iBuyers become the default for consumers

The significance of iBuyers moving into high-dollar markets

The value in agents learning to pitch investor offers to sellers

Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

The Red Dot

Resources:

Rob’s iBuyer Blog Post

Denee Evans on Listing Bits

Zillow’s Q2 Webcast

Cloud Investor Connect

Inman News: Agents can show sellers iBuyer offers with new Cloud CMA feature

Brad Inman: In real estate’s tech platform race, I’m betting on an underdog

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Industry Podcasts

May 26th, 2019

I produce two podcasts

Industry Relations – Rob Hahn (aka The Notorious R.O.B.) and Greg Robertson discuss organized real estate in a disorganized manner.

Listing Bits – Greg Robertson, co-founder of W+R Studios and publisher of Vendor Alley, talks real estate tech with the people who are shaping it.

Industry Relations Episode 27: Building the Quintessential Technology Platform for Real Estate

August 15th, 2018

Perhaps the most compelling piece of theatre in recent real estate history, Gary Keller’s interview at the Inman Connect Conference laid out his argument around the future of the industry. Keller’s approach is to own his own data and develop a software platform unique to Keller Williams, and a number of other franchises are buying up technology companies in order to build their own exclusive data platforms. But is this obsession with technology and controlling the data distracting brokerages and franchisors from what really matters?

Rob and Greg are on the line to discuss real estate technology and data ownership. Greg explains W+R’s focus on creating a kickass experience for agents and consumers alike and describes the company’s approach to aggregating data rather than trying to build a proprietary platform.

Rob and Greg cover the growing competition in real estate software and address who is responsible for providing agents with a technology suite. They debate the merits of designing an exclusive platform versus integrating franchise data with a particular software package to create a custom data solution. Listen in for insight around the US vs. THEM mindset around building technology and learn why Rob and Greg are calling for a renewed focus on agents—and giving them the tools to shine!

What’s Discussed:

The overarching theme of the 2018 Inman Connect conference

Gary Keller’s aim to create his own ‘platform for innovation’

How W+R seeks to democratize the iBuyer experience

The role of AI and machine learning in a technology platform

W+R’s approach to making data useful for the end user

Greg’s take on the notion of data ownership

How Zillow has evolved to generate its own data

W+R’s focus on improving an agent’s listing presentation

Cloud Investor Connect’s value prop for investors

– High intent, high volume

Who is responsible for providing agents with a tech platform